Garmin 430 question

BillJ wrote:
Sam Spade wrote:

Marco Leon wrote:

If you know that you will get this clearance, you would have to creat
a user waypoint using the radial 187 from POM (i.e. V394) and the PDZ
270 radial. You can title the waypoint "PD270" or something and
simply insert it into your flight plan. The flight plan would then be:

PDZ
PD270
AHEIM

When you create the user waypoint, you will notice that you can leave
the distance field blank and define the waypoint by two different
radials. I tried it on the 430 simulator and it seems to be doing
what you hope to accomplish.

Marco


Would you explain how you creat a user waypoint using two radials as
opposed to a radial and distance?

I have a 530W but expect the 430 would do the same. On Page 135 of the
manual it says you can do what Marco says. There is a line for Ref Wpt,
RADial and DIS. Leave distance blank

Next line allows entry of another waypoint (e.g. vor) with blank for
Radial.

Works fine.

Have you actually tried this with your 530W?

It does not work in the 530 trainer.

I verified that it works in both the 430 and 430W trainer. I can't imagine
the 530 trainer(s) would be programmed with different logic than the 430's.
As a shortcut, you can insert the user waypoint name (as long as it is
unique--in my example it was "PD270") in the desired spot in your flight
plan and the unit will prompt you whether or not you would like to create a
user waypoint. After pressing YES, it will take you to the user waypoint
creation page.

Once you hit ENT, the unit will fill in the distance value automatically
since it already has two datapoints.

Hope this helps.

Marco

wrote:
I verified that it works in both the 430 and 430W trainer. I can't imagine
the 530 trainer(s) would be programmed with different logic than the 430's.
As a shortcut, you can insert the user waypoint name (as long as it is
unique--in my example it was "PD270") in the desired spot in your flight
plan and the unit will prompt you whether or not you would like to create a
user waypoint. After pressing YES, it will take you to the user waypoint
creation page.

Once you hit ENT, the unit will fill in the distance value automatically
since it already has two datapoints.

Hope this helps.

Marco

I am familar with that method of creating a user waypoint; i.e., add it
to the active flight plan with a unique name. And, then a LAT/LON can
be entered or a radial/distance from an existing waypoint. And, I
understand there is a second reference facility without distance on the
waypoint data page.

But, I cannot accomplish a radial/radial waypoint nor can I find it
documented in the Garmin 530 pilot's manual.

Let me provide an example of what I am trying to accomplish and you tell
me how you would do this one.

Let's name the waypoint POM13

The waypoing I want to create is where V-264 intersects V-137 east of
POM VOR (more precisely on V-264 east of REANS and west of YUCCA.)

The FAA lists all such airway intersections in its airways database.
The following is an excerpt from the NACO data file for V-137 between
PSP and PMD:

PSP PSP 33 52 12.1 116 25 47.2 ZLA -13 VORTAC

WHETO WHETO 33 57 27.9 116 36 51.2 ZLA RPRT PT

MORON MORON 34 02 00.8 116 46 27.7 ZLA RPRT PT

V264 15419 34 05 49.9 116 54 33.8 ZLA AWY INT

V283 21527 34 11 50.8 117 07 23.2 ZLA AWY INT

ARRAN ARRAN 34 13 07.6 117 10 08.3 ZLA RPRT PT
V442 22186 34 17 04.0 117 18 34.9 ZLA
AWY INT
HITOP HITOP 34 17 58.7 117 20 33.2 ZLA RPRT PT

HESPE HESPE 34 20 28.2 117 25 55.3 ZLA RPRT PT

PMD PMD 34 37 53.0 118 03 49.8 ZLA -15 VORTAC


The user waypoint you say you can create should be:

34 05 49.9 116 54 33.8, which is shown as "15149" in the FAA's database.

So, this would be the POM 073 radial and the PSP 287 radial. Could you
tell me how you enter those two facilities and radials and ignore the
distance field for the first reference waypoint?

Thanks

wrote:
I verified that it works in both the 430 and 430W trainer. I can't imagine
the 530 trainer(s) would be programmed with different logic than the 430's.
As a shortcut, you can insert the user waypoint name (as long as it is
unique--in my example it was "PD270") in the desired spot in your flight
plan and the unit will prompt you whether or not you would like to create a
user waypoint. After pressing YES, it will take you to the user waypoint
creation page.

Once you hit ENT, the unit will fill in the distance value automatically
since it already has two datapoints.

Hope this helps.

Marco


You got me wondering whether the 530W did user waypoints differently, so
I downloaded the 530W manual.


Page 136:

"To create a new user waypoint by entering its latitude/longitude position"

Page 137:

"To create a new user waypoint by referencing an existing waypoint"
This procedure uses radial/distance from the existing waypoing.

Page 138:

"Creating User Waypoints from the Map Page"

Also on Page 138:

"To capture and save your present position as a user waypoint"

Page 139:

Two options for modifying an existing user waypoint:

"From the User Waypoint Page, use the small and large right knobs to
modify the position coordinates of an existing user waypoint."

"You can modify the location of an exist-ing waypoint by changing the
reference waypoint and/or by changing the radial and distance"

Finally, Page 140:

"With the radial (RAD) field highlighted, use the small and large right
knobs to enter a new radial from the reference waypoint"

There is nothing on any of these pages about how to create a user
waypoint using the intersection of two radials.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...

You got me wondering whether the 530W did user waypoints differently, so I
downloaded the 530W manual.


Page 136:

"To create a new user waypoint by entering its latitude/longitude
position"

Page 137:

"To create a new user waypoint by referencing an existing waypoint" This
procedure uses radial/distance from the existing waypoing.

This is the page on 137. The manual is probably referring to a VOR as a
waypoint. #4 states: "Use the small and large right knobs to enter the
identifier of the reference waypoint. The reference waypoint can be an
airport, VOR, NDB, intersection or another user waypoint. Press ENT to
accept the selected identifier."

If you look at the note in the next column on page 137 it states, " The
second reference waypoint field (REF WPT) is a temporary reference only -
not a reference that is stored with the user waypoint. You may also use this
in conjunction with the first reference waypoint to create a position using
the intersection of two radials."

Marco

Marco Leon wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
...


You got me wondering whether the 530W did user waypoints differently, so I
downloaded the 530W manual.


Page 136:

"To create a new user waypoint by entering its latitude/longitude
position"

Page 137:

"To create a new user waypoint by referencing an existing waypoint" This
procedure uses radial/distance from the existing waypoing.


This is the page on 137. The manual is probably referring to a VOR as a
waypoint. #4 states: "Use the small and large right knobs to enter the
identifier of the reference waypoint. The reference waypoint can be an
airport, VOR, NDB, intersection or another user waypoint. Press ENT to
accept the selected identifier."

If you look at the note in the next column on page 137 it states, " The
second reference waypoint field (REF WPT) is a temporary reference only -
not a reference that is stored with the user waypoint. You may also use this
in conjunction with the first reference waypoint to create a position using
the intersection of two radials."

Marco



I missed that note. But, that note is somewhat different in the 530
manual because not reference is made to creating a position using the
intersection of two radials.

So apparently this radial/radial option was a new feature in the WAAS
series.

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news
Marco Leon wrote:
I missed that note. But, that note is somewhat different in the 530
manual because not reference is made to creating a position using the
intersection of two radials.

So apparently this radial/radial option was a new feature in the WAAS
series.

The functionality is in the 530 (A) but it's not explicitly stated in the
old manual. There is a note in that section but the statement about using
two radials to create a user waypoint is not there.

Marco

Marco Leon wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news
Marco Leon wrote:
I missed that note. But, that note is somewhat different in the 530
manual because not reference is made to creating a position using the
intersection of two radials.

So apparently this radial/radial option was a new feature in the WAAS
series.


The functionality is in the 530 (A) but it's not explicitly stated in the
old manual. There is a note in that section but the statement about using
two radials to create a user waypoint is not there.

Marco


Thanks for your help.

Indeed it does work in the 530 trainer. I guess I was hung up on the
reference waypoint changing after I created the intersection. The
handbook says that doesn't matter, which of course it doesn't. ;-)

The 530 and the 530W created a slightly different position for the
intersection of V-264 and V-137.

And, the official FAA position is slightly different than those two.
The difference is reasonable for an en route airway intersection. I
wouldn't want to be designing IAPs using this method, though. ;-)

Intersection of V-264 and V137:

FAA:

34 05 49.9
116 54 33.8


530:

34 06 02.0
116 54 50.7


530W:

34 06 01.9
116 54 50.2

It would be interesting to construct this waypoint at a location with a
different mag var than the location I used and see if that would affect
the device's calculation. Next time.

Sam Spade wrote:
Marco Leon wrote:

"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news
Marco Leon wrote:
I missed that note. But, that note is somewhat different in the 530
manual because not reference is made to creating a position using the
intersection of two radials.

So apparently this radial/radial option was a new feature in the WAAS
series.



The functionality is in the 530 (A) but it's not explicitly stated in
the old manual. There is a note in that section but the statement
about using two radials to create a user waypoint is not there.

Marco

Thanks for your help.

Indeed it does work in the 530 trainer. I guess I was hung up on the
reference waypoint changing after I created the intersection. The
handbook says that doesn't matter, which of course it doesn't. ;-)

The 530 and the 530W created a slightly different position for the
intersection of V-264 and V-137.

And, the official FAA position is slightly different than those two. The
difference is reasonable for an en route airway intersection. I
wouldn't want to be designing IAPs using this method, though. ;-)

Intersection of V-264 and V137:

FAA:

34 05 49.9
116 54 33.8


530:

34 06 02.0
116 54 50.7


530W:

34 06 01.9
116 54 50.2

It would be interesting to construct this waypoint at a location with a
different mag var than the location I used and see if that would affect
the device's calculation. Next time.

Marco Leon wrote:
"Sam Spade" wrote in message
news
Marco Leon wrote:
I missed that note. But, that note is somewhat different in the 530
manual because not reference is made to creating a position using the
intersection of two radials.

So apparently this radial/radial option was a new feature in the WAAS
series.


The functionality is in the 530 (A) but it's not explicitly stated in the
old manual. There is a note in that section but the statement about using
two radials to create a user waypoint is not there.

Marco


Thanks for your help.

Indeed it does work in the 530 trainer. I guess I was hung up on the
reference waypoint changing after I created the intersection. The
handbook says that doesn't matter, which of course it doesn't. ;-)

The 530 and the 530W created a slightly different position for the
intersection of V-264 and V-137.

And, the official FAA position is slightly different than those two.
The difference is reasonable for an en route airway intersection. I
wouldn't want to be designing IAPs using this method, though. ;-)

Intersection of V-264 and V137:

FAA:

34 05 49.9
116 54 33.8


530:

34 06 02.0
116 54 50.7


530W:

34 06 01.9
116 54 50.2

It would be interesting to construct this waypoint at a location with a
different mag var than the location I used and see if that would affect
the device's calculation. Next time.