Flying Lessons

Some Cessna Citation models are certificated for single-pilot operation,
but all Lears require two pilots. I had about 4000 hours of flight
experience (and an airline transport pilot certificate) when I got my Lear
type rating and it cost $9000...in 1977. I suspect that the cost might be a
tad higher in today's dollars.

I applaud your goals and determination. Learn to fly as soon as possible,
but realize that unless you are Richard Branson or Bill Gates, it will be
years before you have the experience to venture into jets.

Bob Gardner

"Steve" wrote in message
. ..

I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been
wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or
should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many
hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary
to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most
courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have
the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw
where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is
there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

The difference is that the $200 is your money.

And the $200 in the Cherokee will get you and 2 or 3 others a few
hundred miles. The $7,000 in the hawker will get you a a 1/2 dozen
friends several thousand miles. I wonder how the actual $ per
person-mile works out between the two.

-Robert

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 08:15:53 -0500, "Dan Luke"
wrote:


"Steve" wrote:

...But what would it take to have the licensing to fly
a lear.

You will need an Airplane, Multi Engine Land rating and type rating for
almost any jet you want to fly. Both require instruction, written tests and
check rides.

And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL.

Yes. In fact, you could do it all at the same time, but it would most likely
be impractical.


Thanks for your input Dan. Why would you consider it impratical?

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 13:31:21 GMT, Larry Dighera
wrote:

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 06:36:01 GMT, "Steve" wrote in
: :

I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby.

Actually, flying is a bit more than a hobby like Chess or wood
working, as an airman commands the public trust over those whom he
flies and whom he carries as passengers; flying is a life and death
matter after all.

It's something I've been wanting to do since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn
how to fly lear jets or should I say private light jets.

Whose Lear jets are you planning to fly, you're own? Or are you
considering commercial operations for your hobby? You should be aware
they require two flight crew as well as a type rating and recurrent
training. Some light jets only require one pilot.

Eventually once all certificates are acquired yes I do plan to fly my
own. I'm not really wanting to be involved with working for anyone.
Mostly just to visit folks and attend events in other cities and
states and the occassional airplane only access fishing trip. Maybe a
flight over the backwoods of Alaska stuff like that.


What flight training classes would I have to take and how many hrs would I
have to perform.

Flying jet aircraft is probably going to require a minimum of 500
hours of flight time and an instrument rating before an insurance
company will consider you.

I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible.

A minimum of two 1-hour lessons a week is required for good progress
in flight training, in my opinion. There are cram courses that
guarantee you a certificate in only a matter of days, but I have no
experience with them, and personally wouldn't recommend them.
Yea, I wouldn't do that I have an ongoing interest in living a long
life


I have noticed that most courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have the licensing to fly
a lear.

It depends. Do you plan to do that commercially or privately? You
might want to peruse the FAA licensing regulations:
http://ecfr.gpoaccess.gov/cgi/t/text...14cfrv2_02.tpl

And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL.

While it is not contrary to Federal Aviation Regulations to receive
that training concurrently with your Private Pilot training, it would
require significant time and effort.

I saw where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

Why are you in such a hurry?


Not really in a hurry. Maybe the question didn't come out right or I
don't understand the literature I'm reading from these flight school
ads I'm reading.

Example I read an ad that said I could get Mutilple Engine rating for
10k. Does that mean they take from 0 to PPL to Instruments to Multiple
engine for 10k or what.

On 20 Sep 2005 06:33:22 -0700, "Paul kgyy"
wrote:

Well, once you get your PPL and IR, you just move on to the
multi-engine by renting a Piper Seneca and working your way up to the
LJ, or go directly to the LJ. I hear they are not all that hard to
fly. I have no idea what the rental cost would be, but fuel alone for
those babies costs a mint. You'll probably have to rent from a flight
school, and they charge more than your local FBO who might have a twin
available for training.

As others have said, just a matter of time and money. I might also add
aptitude, since some people turn out to have no ability to fly.


LOL well hopefully I won't have an aptitude problem. Cause that would
be a expensive way to find out.

Whose Lear jets are you planning to fly, you're own? Or are you
considering commercial operations for your hobby? You should be aware
they require two flight crew as well as a type rating and recurrent
training. Some light jets only require one pilot.

Eventually once all certificates are acquired yes I do plan to fly my
own. I'm not really wanting to be involved with working for anyone.
Mostly just to visit folks and attend events in other cities and
states and the occassional airplane only access fishing trip. Maybe a
flight over the backwoods of Alaska stuff like that.

Of course you didn't mean it, but you did cause me to conjur up the
apparition of a Lear-60 on floats.
In all honesty, my thoughts are that you should before anything
else, just go get your PP-ASEL. You need to start there in case, so go do
that -- first. Forget all the other stuff until then.

On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 10:03:14 -0500, "Jim Burns"
wrote:

If you can fly when ever you want, also meaning that you can pay what ever
it takes, you could realistically knock out your PPL and your Instrument
rating in 6-8 months. I'm sure others will say it can be done faster and
they'd be correct, but starting with 0 time you need to give yourself enough
time to actually learn and build experience. Multi-engine can be done in a
long weekend for under $1500. From there you can go to one of the
specialized type rating schools for the Lear work, however they may require
a minimum number of hours before you qualify to enroll.

Point taken, But when you talk about specialized type rating schools
how do you go about finding out where they are and what their
requirements are I couldn't find them that's why i'm posting here. The
only thing I saw was for the buying a new lear or cessna citation.
However 3 million for a plane is not quite in the budget. Or can you
take these classes from these companies without actually flying home
in a new plane.




My question would be who's Lear will you fly? With minimal hours in type,
you won't be able to rent one. If you buy your own, you will have problems
finding insurance. Best case scenario... you are independently very wealthy
and you can just buy a Lear and not worry about insurance. And you can also
afford the BEST training and you'll make recurrent training your top
priority.

In researching this weekend I found used light jets to be priced from
100k on up. Although affordable I would be concerned about maintenance
and other things on a jet built in 1964 which was the year the lear
was built for 100k that I saw. Also saw some new ones that were priced
well below a million which would be appealing but I would probably
have to lease or make payments on most of them.

What would be your suggestion for the Insurance hurdle?? If I couldn't
rent one to build time in to secure insurance?


Be careful. Do some self examination and understand your motivation. It can
be done, but learn how to do it safely and correctly. Do not let your need
for speed surpass your capabilities.

Thurman Munson, the Yankee catcher, had 516 hours TOTAL flight time, 33
total hours in Citations, and had owned 4 different airplanes during the 18
months that he was a pilot. Too much money. Too much airplane. Too much
speed. Too little experience. Touch and goes in a jet. The last one he
didn't use his checklist. First forgot to lower his gear, then he forgot to
lower his flaps. Way behind the power curve, too slow on final with the
flaps up, they sank into the trees. 516 hours TT 18 months more money
than experience.

Please be careful.

Jim

Jim thanks for your input it is well received.

On 20 Sep 2005 08:47:47 -0700, "Robert M. Gary"
wrote:

I"m not sure if you are saying "Lear Jet" because that's the jet that
comes to mind or if you like the Lear better than other jets. However,
there are several schools out there that have programs that get you
some jet time. All ATP is one example. For $43,994.50 you go all the
way from where you are today to having some jet time. However, if you
plan to earn back your money flying jets, it could take quite some
time. You'll likely spend the first 10 years or so of your professional
life teaching in single engine trainers before you have enough hours to
get hired flying jets.

-Robert

Not going into it too make money off of it Robert. Just a personal
goal and desire. Thanks for your input

On 20 Sep 2005 08:50:27 -0700, wrote:


Steve wrote:
I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.

How flexible is that schedule? You could go to an ab-initio school that
feeds people into the regional airlines in 12-18 months and get all the
ratings, and if you really want, you could get a job with a regional
and get line-qualified as a copilot (FO) in another year maybe, and
quit. They'll probably want you to pay for your training after that,
but if you've got Learjet kind of money that won't be a problem, and
the insurance companies will take you real seriously.

I'm not that flexible and that route appears to be cumbersome and
under a corporate thumb I don't do well in those types of situations.

If you don't have quite that much time, you could pay to get a type
rating at FlightSafety and look for work flying right seat for check
couriers, that sort of thing, that don't require such a permanent
commitment, though it's still not going to be a cakewalk. You'll build
hours and get paid almost as much as you might make as an assistant
manager at a hot dog stand.

Can I go this route without working for someone else. Maybe doing
charity work for something like the "Angel Flight" I saw mentioned
here??


Also, you might want to consider whether you really need a turbojet
airplane... A Lancair Columbia will cruise over 200kts which makes
500-mile trips go plenty fast, and will cost you a hell of a lot less
in fuel and maintenance, and you can order one new from the factory for
half of what you'd pay for a clapped-out jet, and you can get insured
in one even as a VFR student if you're willing to pay out the nose. Of
course, if you're talking about 1000 mile trips in real weather,
nothing beats a jet, but even the brand-new very-light jets don't all
live up to that, especially when you put a couple butts in the seats.

-cwk.

Can I fly one of these planes you mentioned from L.A. to New York in a
fairly resonable amount of time at night or during somewhat unclear
weather.

That sounds like something way bigger than what I would consider
flying.


On Tue, 20 Sep 2005 15:58:26 GMT, "Steve Foley"
wrote:

Just for comparison:

I was talking to a friend of mine who is a corporate pilot. I spend $200 to
fill the tanks in my Cherokee 140. His company spends $7,000 to fill the
tanks in his Hawker.

"Steve" wrote in message
...

I'm considering taking up flying as a hobby. It's something I've been
wanting to do
since I was a kid. The ultimate goal is to learn how to fly lear jets or
should I say private
light jets. What flight training classes would I have to take and how many
hrs would I
have to perform. I can pretty much fly as many times a week as necessary
to get the
training my job schedule is highly flexible. I have noticed that most
courses run from 5
to 7 k. To get a private pilots license. But what would it take to have
the licensing to fly
a lear. And can those courses be taken right after getting my PPL. I saw
where I could
get a PPL for 8,000 and get instrument training for another 6,000. Is
there another
course needed to fly a lear and can all the classes be taken concurrently.