Air America breaking news: "USA to fingerprint ALL visitors !!!"

Alan Pollock wrote:
Seriously, driver's licenses are used as ID in the US.

You know, I am amazed at the transformation of the USA. In the past, the mere
mention of a national identity card would make the republicans rabid,
professing that such a card would infringe on the rights of freedom and
liberty (etc etc).

It is interesting that those very same people today are calling anyone who is
against the current regime's measures "unpatriotic" even those measures
actually do infronge on many of the basic principles of the USA (right to fair
trial, innocent until proven guilty etc).

While a citizen has some power over his government in case of abuses, a
visitor does not. So if the US regime misuses its own citizens information,
you can eventually boot them out (or even impeach them). But for travellers,
they have no such right.

This is especially true when a regime does not have modern data privacy laws
and can essentially do as it wishes with the personal data it collects.

Lets turn the tables around: lets say that the Taliban had required all
visitors to be fingerprinted and photographed when they visited Afghanistan.
Then, they would choose an american indentity at random and proceed to murder
some prominent person in the USA, making sure that they leave some innocent
person's fingerprints as well as wearing a mask making the real guilty person
look like the innocent.


That is why, if you are going to leave personal information with a government,
you must have trust that the government will not misuse that information. The
current USA regime has broken that trust because it has misused the information.

Look at the Jetblue personal information which had been meant to stay within
one department for study, but not only spread to other departments, but was
also handed over to some consulting firm that not only analysed the data but
also displayed privated information in their examples during a presentation at
a conference.

In article ,
"Marie Lewis" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

And the funny thing is, the people who are complaining about the US
wanting photos and fingerprints to come in are often from countries that
already insist on that for their own citizens (like Brazil).

No they are not! They are from Europe and from your "ally" the UK, where
fingerprints denote one's being a suspected criminal.

....or defending your home from violent criminals gets you put in jail...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

James Robinson wrote:
How do you feel about the registration of firearm?

That is in fact quite different. Registration of firearm is no different from
registration of a car or aircraft. Since since all three are dangerous and
kill (with the firearm designed for the sole purpose fo killing and giving no
transportation or other benefit), it is only normal that a government would
want to ensure that you are qualified to operate such a device by requiring registration.

But if a government captures your own body's information (fingerprints, DNA,
eye retina scan etc), then they "own" part of your body/identity.

In article ,
"Marie Lewis" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message

If people were worried about bureaucratic nosiness, they wouldn't go to
most of Europe in the first place.

You show your ignorance.

No, I show that *you* apparently don't know anything about your own home
country, or how it really compares to the US...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
"Marie Lewis" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Lennart Petersen" wrote:

99% ? Interesting. I transferred recently in 6 minutes from
International to domestic including security check. Was in
Sandefjord Norway. How many transfers international-domestic are
done in less 6 minutes in U.S?

You're taking a very unusual example (EU internal transfers), and
pretending that it's common worldwide.

Now, *that's* interesting.

Take a look at the previous post.

I did. It's even funnier. He's comparing a country that has less
international airline passengers per year than *Orlando*, which isn't
even in the top 5 international airports in the US...

Why are the lines longer to get into the US? Because more people *fly*
there. And, by the way, we're having a record year for tourism of all
types...

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
James Robinson wrote:

Chad Irby wrote:

AJC wrote:

Having finger-prints taken for a driving licence? Maybe in Cuba, the
former DDR, or some other 'big brother' regime, but certainly not in
any free country. Finger-printing is for criminals.

Check up on Brazil, then. They were complaining about fingerprinting
people from Brazil coming into the US, but neglected to note that they
already fingerprint and photograph *all* of their own citizens.

Does that somehow make it better? Note he said a "big brother" regime.

Brazil is a democracy, you should look up your terms.

How do you feel about the registration of firearm?

I don't approve of it.

Note that over the last couple of years, firearms laws have been
*relaxing* across most of the US, with one of the sillier ones going
away this September (the Assault Weapons Ban).

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

In article ,
"patLB" wrote:

On the other hand, you could always visit Spain, and relax on their
nice, safe, high-speed trains. Or the ones in France.

Still waiting for the high speed trains of USA...

The distances are too long. Air travel is cheaper for that sort of
range, and as we've found out, trains are far too prone to sabotage.
Any moron with a chunk of steel can knock a train off the tracks.

That's a shame, too, I like trains.

And the vast majority of Americans have decent cars, so "long" trips by
European standards are common weekend trips by US standards.

--
cirby at cfl.rr.com

Remember: Objects in rearview mirror may be hallucinations.
Slam on brakes accordingly.

"Chad Irby" schreef in bericht
om...
In article ,
AJC wrote:

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 13:57:38 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

...and even with that, it's still going to be faster than most customs
checks in 99% of the countries in the world.

You don't get out very much do you?

I'm sure *you* don't, if you think US Customs and Immigration is bad,
compared to most places. Try any of the African nations, for example.
Or Russia.


You claimed that US customs ( I believe you mean immigration) is faster than
"99% of the countries in the world". I have been to 75 countries and the US
is amongst the 10 countries with the longest/slowest lines for immigration
and customs. Yes, Russia is bad too and so are some of the African nations
(although Egypt and Ethiopia were incredibly quick when I visited last
year), but the US is almost always slow.

Sjoerd

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:05:16 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
"Marie Lewis" wrote:

"Chad Irby" wrote in message
om...

And the funny thing is, the people who are complaining about the US
wanting photos and fingerprints to come in are often from countries that
already insist on that for their own citizens (like Brazil).

No they are not! They are from Europe and from your "ally" the UK, where
fingerprints denote one's being a suspected criminal.

...or defending your home from violent criminals gets you put in jail...

Which does not materially affect the UK immigration and customs being
far far simpler than entering the US even now.

Oh, and defending your home is not illegal, the emphasis in the UK is
defending your *life*, and to use reasonable force (where reasonable
force does *not*include waiting for burglars with an illegally held
shorgun, then shooting one of them in the back).

---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - drink faster

On Sat, 03 Apr 2004 20:15:43 GMT, Chad Irby wrote:

In article ,
"patLB" wrote:

On the other hand, you could always visit Spain, and relax on their
nice, safe, high-speed trains. Or the ones in France.

Still waiting for the high speed trains of USA...

The distances are too long. Air travel is cheaper for that sort of
range, and as we've found out, trains are far too prone to sabotage.
Any moron with a chunk of steel can knock a train off the tracks.

That's a shame, too, I like trains.

And the vast majority of Americans have decent cars, so "long" trips by
European standards are common weekend trips by US standards.

Very true - I'm always horrified by my colleagues who think nothing of
driving for 15 hours to get away for the weekend. That's 15 hours
without any breaks except for refuelling! Madre de Dios!
---
Peter Kemp

Life is short - drink faster