Best Software and Hardware for Turn Area Task?

I am currently flying with a Cambridge GPS NAV and a L-Nav. I would like to up
grade or add equipment to help me fly the Turn Area Task. What works well and
what are the important features that can aid in making correct decisions while
flying the Turn Area Task?

Bill Snead
6W

On 07 Aug 2003 03:38:28 GMT, (Snead1) wrote:

I am currently flying with a Cambridge GPS NAV and a L-Nav. I would like to up
grade or add equipment to help me fly the Turn Area Task. What works well and
what are the important features that can aid in making correct decisions while
flying the Turn Area Task?

Bill Snead
6W


A pair of dice, roulette wheel or random number generator would be an
appropriate decision making aid for this task.

Seriously, when you think about it this task is very difficult to
anything rational about. You are going to an unknown point in an
area, the decision as to where to turn depends on a time calculation
with a large error band(the task demands calculations from the pilot
i.e.how long it will take to do the task that the task setter doesn't
want to do) and later in the flight your options close off
particularly if the weather gets better.
Some solutions involve moving the turnpoint on the flight computer
screen, a hazardous activity given this task's opportunity to create
high speed crossing tracks.
A moving map helps only somewhat. Our B2000 handles this moderately
well with a combination of director graphics and simple moving map.
We are working on a new display graphic idea which will help.

Mike Borgelt
Borgelt Instruments.

We are working on a new display graphic idea which will help.

You ought to work on some informative marketing material for your website.
The only product info on the B2000 there is the manual which is not the best
way to get an overview of the product.

(Snead1) wrote in message ...
I am currently flying with a Cambridge GPS NAV and a L-Nav. I would like to up
grade or add equipment to help me fly the Turn Area Task. What works well and
what are the important features that can aid in making correct decisions while
flying the Turn Area Task?

Bill Snead
6W

Bill,

You need to have a good prediction of your finish time based on
current ring setting, task distance left to go, average speed up to
now, and current wind estimate. I also find a graphic depiction of the
turn areas to be very useful.

In addition you need the ability to move the turnpoint in the area
before you reach it and to easily reset it to the point that you
actually turn at. Of course those turnpoint moves should result in a
new estimate of time to complete the task.

Look carefully at candidate systems to see if they support these
features. There are different methods for moving the turnpoint, some
systems do not use the wind estimate to calculate the finish time,
some systems do not support the much needed "turn now" function.

Andy (GY)

(Andy Durbin) wrote:

How good predictions are is a matter of opinion, but GPS_LOG WinCE
provides just about all you asked for.

Henryk Birecki

You need to have a good prediction of your finish time based on
current ring setting, task distance left to go, average speed up to
now, and current wind estimate. I also find a graphic depiction of the
turn areas to be very useful.

In addition you need the ability to move the turnpoint in the area
before you reach it and to easily reset it to the point that you
actually turn at. Of course those turnpoint moves should result in a
new estimate of time to complete the task.

Look carefully at candidate systems to see if they support these
features. There are different methods for moving the turnpoint, some
systems do not use the wind estimate to calculate the finish time,
some systems do not support the much needed "turn now" function.

Andy (GY)

Bill,

WinPilot fully supports this task in addition to 2 cylinder start gates. It
also has a tasking feature that can move the point in the turn area as you
fly, and update your task distance and ETA.

Please see my website for information or call.

Richard
www.craggyaero.com
530-905-0062


"Snead1" wrote in message
...
I am currently flying with a Cambridge GPS NAV and a L-Nav. I would like
to up
grade or add equipment to help me fly the Turn Area Task. What works well
and
what are the important features that can aid in making correct decisions
while
flying the Turn Area Task?

Bill Snead
6W

(Snead1) wrote in message ...
I am currently flying with a Cambridge GPS NAV and a L-Nav. I would like to up
grade or add equipment to help me fly the Turn Area Task. What works well and
what are the important features that can aid in making correct decisions while
flying the Turn Area Task?

Bill Snead
6W

Hello Bill,

'guess the discussion went into a different direction.
Anyhow, although I am not totally happy with my Filser LX20, it does
allow the modification of the TAT by moving the turnpoint to where
ever you need it within the cylinder(s). You can perform this task on
the ground or in flight and the instrument will update the distance,
etc. All this is only possible with the software version V5.3, which
still has some bugs that need to be worked out by Filser.

Safe Soaring
Uli Neumann
Libelle 'GM'

"Snead1" wrote in message
I am currently flying with a Cambridge GPS NAV and a L-Nav. I would like
to up
grade or add equipment to help me fly the Turn Area Task. What works well
and
what are the important features that can aid in making correct decisions
while
flying the Turn Area Task?
Bill Snead; 6W


"Mike Borgelt" wrote in message
""A pair of dice, roulette wheel or random number generator would be an
appropriate decision making aid for this task.""
Mike Borgelt
Borgelt Instruments.
__________________________________________________ ______

Good point Mike,
and probably no one who helped to create the scooring system, described in
the FAI SC S3 / ANNEX A ever has thought through the consequences with
the eyes of a competition pilot.

Officially we have now
- RT Racing Task (classic task, fix distance for all)
- AST Speed Task - Assigned Areas (var. distance, minimum time)
- PST Speed Task - Pilot Selected (var. distance, minimum time)
- TAT Distance Task - Assigned Areas (var. distance, maximum time)
- TPT Distance Task - Pilot Selected

Well - even if you are told what kind of tasks the competition will contain,
you will not really know what you get, because 3 different possibilities
of scoring are applicable.

A. 1000-Points Scoring System: The Score is expressed in points
(the maximum available daily Score is 1000 points).
B. Kilometre Scoring System: The Score is expressed in kilometres
(the max available daily Score is equal to the best Distance of the Day)
C. Place Scoring System: The Score is expressed in places
(the maximum available Place Score for the Day is 25).
D. Or you might have local scoring rules and formulas.

Most competitions use the 1000point system - lets have a look.

RT Racing Task is the classic task with 2/3 of the max points for
speed and 1/3 for distance, if enough competitors return home.

I still like it, especially the Australian version with different
start
points.
They give speed points only and if you messed up a day completely
you better land short of the home field, even if you could make it
home, because you will get more points)

AST Speed Task over Assigned Area turn points
PST Speed Task over Pilot selected turn points
- for both tasks distance is variable a minimum time applies
- The winner points are splitted 2/3 for speed and 1/3 for distance.
- Finishers get the same distance points as the pilot with the bigest
distance even if there distance is smaller!
- Finishers returning home too early get the speed calculated with
the minimum time given.

In my opinion this kind of scoring is just nonsense!
If more points are given for speed than distance, every pilot will
fly the shortest distance to minimise the risk. After the experience
of the SA preworlds the IGC created the minimum time - what a
stupid idea!!
For variable distance speed tasks the points should be given equally
for distance and speed (50/50%). That would give the pilots a
reason to fly as far and fast as possible.
Each pilots gets points for his own flown distance and his speed.
If done so, the minimum time, which gives the pilot headache to
optimise the task, is not needed anymore.

TAT Distance Task over Assigned Areas turn points
TPT Distance Task over Pilot Selected turn points
- for both tasks a maximum time applies
- distance points are given only
- no penalty is given, if you return home too late, but only the
distance taken, flown until the max. time has been reached.

I can live with TAT. TPT is fine as long as the weather is more or
less homogenious in the competition area.
The only problem is, that normally the task manager will give you
a task like that, if weather conditions are very unpredictable. As a
result you might in Switzerland have turnpoints in the mountains,
in the flat region or towards the Jura, regions with very different
weather pattern. Then it is like throwing the dice - where shall you
go? If selecting the wrong region - you are fu....ed.

Personally I do not like PST and TPT tasks. Unpredictable weather
pattern can just make it a lucky game.
I prefer tasks where pilots have to fly in a given sequence to certain
areas, and every pilot faces about the same problems.
But with the current formulas for AST and PST tasks, I will not fly
any competitions using them. It is just a crazy scoring way to compare
pilots abilities. I do not need this kind of experience. Then I prefer to
spend some nice days flying for fun and declare it in the OLC.

Chris Hostettler
Melbourne