Ethanol Mandate for Iowa?

Do you have a patent on magic BTUs? Petroleum BTUs are used grow and
distill corn into ethanol.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:dpe_e.18544$lW3.18289@trndny09...
sfb wrote:

Ethanol is the ultimate political boondoggle as it costs more BTUs to
manufacture than it provides.

But you don't have to use petroleum to provide those BTUs;
consequently, it does reduce dependence on foreign oil, and it does
pollute less than petrol.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person
to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

It ain't pixie dust powering the farm machinery that tills the fields
and plants, fertilizes, and harvests the corn.

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:Rre_e.18545$lW3.12256@trndny09...
sfb wrote:

There are serious studies that demonstrate ethanol is an energy loser
as it requires more BTUs to manufacture that it provides.

But that energy doesn't have to be produced by burning oil.

George Patterson
Give a person a fish and you feed him for a day; teach a person
to
use the Internet and he won't bother you for weeks.

"sfb" wrote in message news:02f_e.9523$kH3.8149@trnddc01...
It ain't pixie dust powering the farm machinery that tills the fields and
plants, fertilizes, and harvests the corn.


Or makes the steel and plastic tractor, or runs and feeds the fertilizer
plant.

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:b3c_e.369489$x96.190155@attbi_s72...
[...]
"Please continue to sponsor legislation that makes ethanol- gasoline
cheaper than regular unleaded gasoline."

So...rainforests, bad. Taking away your cheap aviation fuel, bad. But
subsidizing corn production in Iowa, good?

If ethanol were actually an economically viable improvement to gasoline, we
wouldn't need laws to encourage it.

Pete

"Jay Masino" wrote in message
...

Despite the fact that mandating ethanol blends would be bad for you, it's
really better for the country in general. Using ethanol, along with
biodiesel, can go along way towards making our country less dependant on
foreign oil.

If and when an ethanol producer can run his entire operation on ethanol and
still have enough left over to sell to someone else, then we'll be
*approaching* proof that ethanol is a net win. (See Mike's post about all
the other infrastructure not supported by ethanol for where the remaining
ambiguity will lie).

Likewise for biodiesel.

I'm all for alternative energy sources, especially when they are easily
renewed. But they need to NET energy. If they can't be fully
self-supporting, using only their own energy for production (*), then they
obviously are net energy consumers, and simply shifting the distribution
network (and adding a middleman...maybe good for the economy, but not so
good for energy conservation).

IMHO, biodiesel shows a lot of promise, but I've yet to hear of a biodiesel
production facility that generates 100% of their own energy with biodiesel.

Pete

(*) it would certainly be great if the initial investment could be
self-supporting too, but as long as the production itself is a net positive
(after all factors are considered, including on-going maintenance of
production equipment), in the long run we still come out ahead.

So, rather than bitching about the world turning to a gasahol blend of some
sort (which it seems to be doing) let's light a fire under those who hold
the STCs to determine WHY gasahol is bad for the aircraft environment and do
something about it.

I do not quite understand why gasahol burns well in old Ford tractors that
use Marvel carburetors and is prohibited in aircraft with Marvel
carburetors, other than some bureaucrat with a bad comb-over deciding it is
so. And, if there IS some sort of special part in the fuel system that is
attacked by ethanol, it isn't rocket science to specify a material for that
part that is NOT eaten by alcohol.

We can attack the problem politically and get buried under sheer numbers of
farmers vs. pilots or we can attack the problem with engineering and solve
it. Simply kvetching that we won't be able to play with our toy airplanes
like we used to be able to do isn't going to cut it.

Just like "pilots without medicals" (LSA) was denied for years, we CAN get
something done if we want it bad enough.

Jim

"George Patterson" wrote in message
news:dpe_e.18544$lW3.18289@trndny09...
sfb wrote:

Ethanol is the ultimate political boondoggle as it costs more BTUs to
manufacture than it provides.

But you don't have to use petroleum to provide those BTUs; consequently,
it does reduce dependence on foreign oil, and it does pollute less than
petrol.



The problem is if you use a gallon of Ethanol to produce 0.99 gallons of
Ethanol all of the fuel produced will go into production and you are going
to have to add .01 petro just to break even.

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005 13:46:47 GMT, "Jay Honeck"
wrote in
b3c_e.369489$x96.190155@attbi_s72::

if you make regular unleaded gasoline unavailable in
Iowa, you will make it impossible for many of us to fly our small
airplanes

Of course, this is an exaggeration. I've never used Mo-gas, and have
been flying aircraft who's engines were designed for 80/87 decades.

"Jay Masino" wrote in message
...

You're correct, but that doesn't negate the fact that there's only a
certain amount of oil in the ground, and it's not gonna last forever.
It's hard to argue with the concept of growing some corn or soybeans and
making fuel from it. Even if it's not the complete answer, it still
starts the ball rolling towards weening ourselves from fossile fuels.

Your last atatement is not true, it actually increases slightly our
dependence on fossil fuels. It is very easy to argue that growing corn for
fuel makes no sense, in fact if all the facts are looked at it isn't even an
argument.

"Everywhere, every day on the radio, television, and in the newspapers, all
I
hear is how the "Record Price of Oil" is killing America.

Yet, strangely, Americans keep driving *more*. And I don't see anyone
flying less."

"Get out and fly, people! Life is good!"

- from the "Stop Whining, America" thread.

Which, of course, was written before the unprecedented run-up in prices
since Hurricane Katrina.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"