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#461
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Dan Luke wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote: That's morality and it doesn't involve religion. It only involves evolution, something we evidently have a long way to go on. Some more than others. Now that is funny. Morality results from evolution. Best one I've heard in a long time. What's funny about it? I just find really stupid statements humorous. Matt |
#462
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mike regish wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... mike regish wrote: Morality is doing the right thing just because you know it's the right thing to do, not because you think some magical being is going to strike you down from above or send you to some imaginary hell. Who determines what the "right things" are? In my case, I do. Duh. Better check the definition again. That's morality and it doesn't involve religion. It only involves evolution, something we evidently have a long way to go on. Some more than others. Now that is funny. Morality results from evolution. Best one I've heard in a long time. Learning right from wrong comes from evolution. Or better said, learning better ways of doing things...like talking rather than fighting. If that was the case, then every human would be born with an innate sense of right and wrong and every generation would have an even more refined sense of morality at birth. Sorry, doesn't work that way. Matt |
#464
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#465
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:09:44 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote: wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:32:55 GMT, "Howard Nelson" wrote: Athiest is a religion. Reading further into the stats on that site they say 15% of the world's population have no religion and that number is falling, which I find surprising. Probably so. Religion and revolution always rise when existence becomes too harsh to rationally accept. I also am curious about your assertion that "atheism is a religion". As far as I know, there are no atheistic altars, no stone buildings,no holy books, no wailing walls, no ceremonies, no prayers, no hymns, indeed, none of the things that are generally associated with religion.. If one were to define religion as a "belief a theory which cannot be proven by scientific inquiry (i.e.. a faith) then atheism would qualify as a religion since you can no more prove the absence of GOD then one can prove the existence of GOD. My definition of a real, authentic religion is that it requires at least a few people who are willing to kill others who don't believe as they do. Christianity, Islam, Hindu, Sikh, even Buddhism, (I believe), all qualify. That is the dumbest definition I've ever heard. Other than that, it's just a belief system. That is precisely what it is. Killing has nothing to do with it and is an abomination to most true believers. Are you kidding? It takes a true believer to blow himself up for his god. Organized religion has been killing people for hundreds, no, make that thousands of years. Even today, your organized religious leaders prefer to see people die a ghastly, ugly death from AIDS rather than see them to put a little rubber thingy on their John Williamses. If that's not killing by religion, it's a damn good second. However, it is more fun to look at the fringe elements and ascribe their behaviour to the broader group. Cowardly, but fun. Then again, folks that hide behind anonymous names understand that all too well. As far as I know, no atheist has ever killed anybody simply because he didn't believe what the atheist believed. Stalin probably came close, but I think his persecution of Jews and christians was political rather than religious. But I suppose that's arguable as well. At any rate, religion is indeed the opiate of the masses, used by leaders all throughtout history to sedate their followers. Never been truer than today. Except that the religions of philosophy and blind/false science are gaining fast in popularity. May I remind you that every religion but one must be a false religion, and we're not too sure about that one. I suspect in another 50-100 years more of the masses will be controlled by philosophers and junk scientists than by more traditional religions. Let's hope so. Let's hope so. |
#466
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:04:56 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote: wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:21:10 GMT, Brooks Hagenow wrote: I am hardly a priest. I would like to make a correction though. Revisiting that site I found showing only 2.5% of the world's population were athiests I realized I don't actually know what an athiest is. Athiest is a religion. Reading further into the stats on that site they say 15% of the world's population have no religion and that number is falling, which I find surprising. I don't know what your point is, but I do know that the percentage of atheists in the U. S. is said generally to be about 10%, or 4 times the world percentage, assuming both numbers to be correct (an assertion of which I am uncertain) I'm curious to know what conclusions one can draw with either of these facts (assuming they are both correct). I also am curious about your assertion that "atheism is a religion". Definition #4 in the following: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion As far as I know, there are no atheistic altars, no stone buildings,no holy books, no wailing walls, no ceremonies, no prayers, no hymns, indeed, none of the things that are generally associated with religion.. Most of these aren't mentioned in any definition of religion with which I'm familiar. Religion is a system of beliefs, not artifacts. That's why the image of the virgin mary on a grilled cheese sandwich was bid up to $69,000 on eBay. Atheism, even modern philosophy, are all religious in nature despite the claims of the believers in these belief systems. Personally, I think it is an attempt by the religious to label atheists and secular humanists s "religious" in order to validate themselves, ( as they continually strive to do), even as they contend that atheism is anathema to them. A curious contradiction, to say the least. I find it equally curious that atheists, philosophers and others try so hard to avoid the term religion. Why are they so ashamed of their beliefs? They're not. They are ashamed to be associated with what you call religion, and the inhumane acts committed in its name. |
#467
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On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 15:51:59 -0500, Matt Whiting
wrote: Except for cowardly anonymous internet ng posters... Matt Sticks in the old craw a litttle bit, doesn't it? |
#468
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#469
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#470
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wrote:
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 16:04:56 -0500, Matt Whiting wrote: wrote: On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 17:21:10 GMT, Brooks Hagenow wrote: I am hardly a priest. I would like to make a correction though. Revisiting that site I found showing only 2.5% of the world's population were athiests I realized I don't actually know what an athiest is. Athiest is a religion. Reading further into the stats on that site they say 15% of the world's population have no religion and that number is falling, which I find surprising. I don't know what your point is, but I do know that the percentage of atheists in the U. S. is said generally to be about 10%, or 4 times the world percentage, assuming both numbers to be correct (an assertion of which I am uncertain) I'm curious to know what conclusions one can draw with either of these facts (assuming they are both correct). I also am curious about your assertion that "atheism is a religion". Definition #4 in the following: http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=religion As far as I know, there are no atheistic altars, no stone buildings,no holy books, no wailing walls, no ceremonies, no prayers, no hymns, indeed, none of the things that are generally associated with religion.. Most of these aren't mentioned in any definition of religion with which I'm familiar. Religion is a system of beliefs, not artifacts. That's why the image of the virgin mary on a grilled cheese sandwich was bid up to $69,000 on eBay. You keep confusing fanatics with people who hold a genuine faith in a higher being. It really isn't that complicated. It is obvious that you've had a bad experience with organized religion at some point, but that is no reason to paint the whole world with your brush. Since we're in a flying forum, have you ever had a bad experience while flying? Do you even fly? If so, did you give up on flying because of one bad experience ... or one bad controller ... or one bad fellow pilot? Atheism, even modern philosophy, are all religious in nature despite the claims of the believers in these belief systems. Personally, I think it is an attempt by the religious to label atheists and secular humanists s "religious" in order to validate themselves, ( as they continually strive to do), even as they contend that atheism is anathema to them. A curious contradiction, to say the least. I find it equally curious that atheists, philosophers and others try so hard to avoid the term religion. Why are they so ashamed of their beliefs? They're not. They are ashamed to be associated with what you call religion, and the inhumane acts committed in its name. Committed by a very few on the fringes. If the atheists and philosophers did any research at all, they would know this. If every person in the world who professes a religious belief or affiliation was a wanton killer as you suggest, the world would have long ago ceased to be inhabited by humans. Since the majority of the population claim some religious belief, if each person killed even one other person, there'd be nobody left in less than a year. Matt |
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