Nearly ready for the A&P exams

Hello.

I just completed the last of the three written exams for my
Airframe & Powerplant rating. So I no longer have an excuse
to put off the oral and practical test!

Any words of wisdom for how to best prepare for this test?
Also, should I go for both licenses in a single O&P session,
or study and test separately?

I am also wondering how the general knowledge questions
are handled. Are these included in the airframe O&P,
or are they split between the two O&P tests?

Thanks
-Mark

AS the applicant, you have to provide the place for the
test. If you have attended a school, such as SPARTAN or a
community college, they will have the facilities, such as a
welding shop, tools and aircraft for you to use for the
test.
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-26.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-27.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-28.pdf
Links to the A&P PTS

I would plan on two days for both certificates.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Mark" wrote in message
...
| Hello.
|
| I just completed the last of the three written exams for
my
| Airframe & Powerplant rating. So I no longer have an
excuse
| to put off the oral and practical test!
|
| Any words of wisdom for how to best prepare for this test?
| Also, should I go for both licenses in a single O&P
session,
| or study and test separately?
|
| I am also wondering how the general knowledge questions
| are handled. Are these included in the airframe O&P,
| or are they split between the two O&P tests?
|
| Thanks
| -Mark
|
|

"Jim Macklin" wrote:
AS the applicant, you have to provide the place for the
test. If you have attended a school, such as SPARTAN or a
community college, they will have the facilities, such as a
welding shop, tools and aircraft for you to use for the
test.
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-26.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-27.pdf
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-28.pdf
Links to the A&P PTS

I would plan on two days for both certificates.

Jim:

Thanks for posting the PTS links, I had not located those yet.

AFAIK, our local examiners have their own facilities available for
administering
the tests. I haven't heard of any of the students from my program (community
college) testing at the school.

Mark wrote:
"Jim Macklin" wrote:
AS the applicant, you have to provide the place for the
test. If you have attended a school, such as SPARTAN or a
community college, they will have the facilities, such as a
welding shop, tools and aircraft for you to use for the
test.


Most any DME will have a host facility they prefer to use and it is
generally part of the test.

An aside: something like 25% of A&P school grads never actually get
their licenses and of those who do many never use it or leave aviation
maintenance permanently in their first twelve months of employment.
Unless you're a pilot looking to use it to leverage a jet right seat or
want a piece of paper to show off at the watering hole it's not much of
an economic asset anymore.

Getting the license by experience is the only way that makes any sense
to me-A&P schools are largely a total ripoff. We have one out here that
advertises in the paper with photos of corporate jets taking off and
the inside of the GE Cincinnati plant-their "school" actually is a
converted LTL truck terminal in the middle of nowhere with a junked
Queen Air and some old dead RR Vipers that are far from runnable.
Course cost is $30,000 and rising again in May. The few grads getting
hired in town are going to work for $12-14 an hour as combination line
service and shop, second and third shift, at the ONE FBO that will hire
them (and, oh yes-a $5/hr discount on Sundowner rental if they want
flight training there.)

Mark wrote:
Hello.

I just completed the last of the three written exams for my
Airframe & Powerplant rating. So I no longer have an excuse
to put off the oral and practical test!

Any words of wisdom for how to best prepare for this test?
Also, should I go for both licenses in a single O&P session,
or study and test separately?

I am also wondering how the general knowledge questions
are handled. Are these included in the airframe O&P,
or are they split between the two O&P tests?

Thanks
-Mark

I can tell you how mine was handled, but I did my A&P at a large
university that does this every semester, and really has the program
down. This particular university books out two days for the O&P's. I'm
assuming some people need more time, but I don't know anyone who did.
We started off with the oral, which took four or five hours, and
included the questions for the general, airframe, and powerplant. Good
thing about that was that I was largely left alone during the practical
part of it. I was basically given a list of projects to do, and worked
through them in whatever order I wanted to. The most annoying one was
having to taxi...here I was, a CFI, being tested on my taxiing ability. :-)

Anyway, I didn't have a problem doing both in one session, even though I
was jetlagged (you know, last minute overseas trip before commencement
sounded good at the time...). I think I did nine hours the first day
and six or seven the second day. It was hard, but much lower key than
my three CFI checkrides.

I'll tell you the same thing about the oral I tell all my students
before checkrides...don't volunteer information. Answer the question
and only the question. Don't elaborate. Remember, the DME won't fail
you for omitting information (he'll just question you further), but if
you volunteer incorrect information, it's a bust, even if it's something
he didn't ask about.

Some people will tell you that DE's will give you more trouble if you
did poorly on a written. I saw that once with one of my instrument
students, but with my A&P, he just seemed to want to do it efficiently.
My lowest score was an 85 on the airframe, and I didn't notice any
extra questioning on that part. Not sure if there are any oral exam
prep books like for pilot ratings, but those are very helpful.

My only other piece of advice is not to leave your copy of AC43.13 in a
hotel room in Paris two days before the O&P's, but I think most people
are more intelligent than I was.

Good luck!

Bret Ludwig wrote:
snip

An aside: something like 25% of A&P school grads never actually get
their licenses and of those who do many never use it or leave aviation
maintenance permanently in their first twelve months of employment.
Unless you're a pilot looking to use it to leverage a jet right seat or
want a piece of paper to show off at the watering hole it's not much of
an economic asset anymore.

Really? Everyone I went to school with got their A&P (except one guy
who couldn't pass). All but two of us are still in aviation. I've only
had two jobs out of college, but I got both because I had the A&P. And
a nice per year bonus for having it.

Getting the license by experience is the only way that makes any sense
to me-A&P schools are largely a total ripoff. We have one out here that
advertises in the paper with photos of corporate jets taking off and
the inside of the GE Cincinnati plant-their "school" actually is a
converted LTL truck terminal in the middle of nowhere with a junked
Queen Air and some old dead RR Vipers that are far from runnable.
Course cost is $30,000 and rising again in May.

IMHO, anyone who doesn't do research into a school like this is asking
for trouble. I have zero experience with other schools, but mine
definitely wasn't what you described above.

The few grads getting
hired in town are going to work for $12-14 an hour as combination line
service and shop, second and third shift, at the ONE FBO that will hire
them (and, oh yes-a $5/hr discount on Sundowner rental if they want
flight training there.)

Funny...my school has a 100% placement rate most years, and the average
starting salary is $37,000 a year. Not great, but better than $12-14 an
hour.

"Bret Ludwig" wrote:

Getting the license by experience is the only way that makes any
sense to me-A&P schools are largely a total ripoff.

I have heard that about some of the private schools, like the one you
cited. $30k for A&P training? Absurd. That sounds like a scam
targeted at government-financed "retraining" programs for displaced
workers.

Community colleges can be a good deal though. I went through a
program at a community college near Seattle, and the cost was about
$850/quarter plus whatever I spent on tools. That's about seven
grand for the school, plus the testing costs which are the same no
matter how you qualify.

Having said that, these are _not_ profitable programs at such prices.
We have four or five community college A&P programs here in
WA State, with three in the Seattle area. I hear that's quite a lot to
choose from. College administrators can really improve their bottom
line by shutting down the expensive A&P programs and replacing
them with liberal arts curricula, where they get the same tuition and
only have to provide an instructor and a classroom.

As for the pay, well. . .that's another discussion. If you just want to
turn a wrench on airplanes, there's a big repair station nearby here
that will hire you without an A&P, and their starting pay is
comparable to what you mentioned. They do pay a small hourly
premium for an Airframe ticket though.

I would contact the examiner well before the test and
discuss the procedures, any materials you need to bring,
etc. If you have documents and reference materials, I would
be sure to bring everything along.

Bring your welding goggles, gloves and other small tools.
The shop where you will test should have sheet metal brakes,
but you should bring your tools.

Good luck.

--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm
See http://www.fija.org/ more about your rights and duties.


"Mark" wrote in message
...
| "Jim Macklin"
wrote:
| AS the applicant, you have to provide the place for the
| test. If you have attended a school, such as SPARTAN or
a
| community college, they will have the facilities, such
as a
| welding shop, tools and aircraft for you to use for the
| test.
|
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-26.pdf
|
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-27.pdf
|
http://www.faa.gov/education_researc...-S-8081-28.pdf
| Links to the A&P PTS
|
| I would plan on two days for both certificates.
|
| Jim:
|
| Thanks for posting the PTS links, I had not located those
yet.
|
| AFAIK, our local examiners have their own facilities
available for
| administering
| the tests. I haven't heard of any of the students from my
program (community
| college) testing at the school.
|
|

Mark wrote:
"Bret Ludwig" wrote:

Getting the license by experience is the only way that makes any
sense to me-A&P schools are largely a total ripoff.

I have heard that about some of the private schools, like the one you
cited. $30k for A&P training? Absurd. That sounds like a scam
targeted at government-financed "retraining" programs for displaced
workers.

Community colleges can be a very good deal getting you an A.S. degree
and your A&P ticket for a reasonable outlay and for the
just-starting-out set are a reasonable deal. If the instruction is good
the skills are yours whether or not you go in aviation. Some will get
you the FCC GROL as well, but that's pretty easy anyway.

But in every city such schools abound. The one out here is
euphemistically called "Aviation Institute of Maintenance". I have
three or four acquaintences that have taught or interviewed to teach
out there. I got the guided tour as a prospective student and thought
I'd die laughing at the place. The recruiter weighed at least 600 lbs.
and the head of training is a moonlighting clergyman.

"Mark" wrote in message
...
Hello.

I just completed the last of the three written exams for my
Airframe & Powerplant rating. So I no longer have an excuse
to put off the oral and practical test!

Any words of wisdom for how to best prepare for this test?
Also, should I go for both licenses in a single O&P session,
or study and test separately?

I did the oral at the examiner's residence and the practical the next day at
his hangar.
This was the way he preferred and I think it's better to spread it over two
days.


I am also wondering how the general knowledge questions
are handled. Are these included in the airframe O&P,
or are they split between the two O&P tests?


On the oral, the examiner must ask a certain number of questions in each
category; the choice is his. My examiner was kind enough to ask me what I
was weak on and chose the questions accordingly.
I believe there is a certain amount leniency on what practical subjects the
examiner chooses, again he ask me about my weak/strong suits.
What I had looked forward to with dread turned out to be a very enjoyable
experience