Butterfly

On Wednesday, August 28, 2013 5:07:31 PM UTC-7, JS wrote:
The Butterfly is the most contemporary looking vario I've flown with. All others look quite "old fashioned" after using it.

The multiple "pointers" displayed give a pretty complete analysis of the airmass at a glance. The wind calculation is the smoothest I've ever seen.. It works very well in weak lift. I did not get to fly it in choppy lift.

However, Marc from Butterfly told me that the FLARM warnings in the vario do not cover the full range of warnings that the FLARM display does. Besides this I believe it does not automatically switch to the radar screen if there is a warning. They do not recommend it as the primary FLARM display.

Jim

You are correct, it does not switch to the Flarm display by itself under any circumstances. You must manually change to that screen using the select knob. There are no warning type displays on the screen, it just shows the radar display with any detected glider or ADS-B traffic. It appears to me that the "RX" icon will light on receiving a Mode C transponder, but that is the only indication. The voice warnings happen over everything though (but again no PCAS).

And yes the display is spectacular compared to any others I have seen. Makes all the others look like "steam gages". But: the V7 does show Flarm warnings......

On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:59:06 PM UTC-8, wrote:
Hello The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market. Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring one but it as to be better than my LX 7000. Thanks for your input. Gilles

I have two of these in an ASH 25. Best vario I have ever used and I date back to the days of the Schuman box. The bright display is excellent and you can set it for a fast response rate without the audio becomig irritating. The audio is also the most pleasant I have flown with. The netto ball and McCready are easy to see and the McCready is super easy to adjust. The speed command page is OK but no big improvment over my SN10. It is also a complete navigation and final glide computer, but these features are not as convenient as with the big moving map displays. At this time you cannot enter a competition type task on the instrument, but I understand that is in the works. My Inertial sensor unit was defective and has been just been replaced and not flown. When it was working the real time wind information was bad ass. I could see a rapid shift of direction as I dropped through the normal shear from west to north at my home field, also I could map the winds on opposing sides of a convergence line. I suspect it might be helpfull when ridge soaring, although I have not tried that. I am not convinced that the vertical air mass/inertial information is of much help. I may learn to utilize it eventually. The artificial horizon is very cool and comforting, although will probably never be used. I see this instrument combined with a big moving map instrument such as LX9000, Clear Nav, or Ultimate as being the best setup possible today. The Butterfly being a great vario while providing redundancy for the navigation and final glide computers. I don't see much use for the Flarm page unless they make it appear automatically when traffic is near. The voice (bitching Betty) is not of much use to me because if I set it loud enough for me to hear, when flying,it is garbled. I am deaf as a post,however, as I think many of us are. I have found that installing an external speaker on the Flarm and using the Flarm displays is better.. It is also a easy to use approved flight recorder.

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:21:47 PM UTC-7, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 27, 2013 4:59:06 PM UTC-8, wrote:

Hello The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market. Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring one but it as to be better than my LX 7000. Thanks for your input. Gilles



I have two of these in an ASH 25. Best vario I have ever used and I date back to the days of the Schuman box. The bright display is excellent and you can set it for a fast response rate without the audio becomig irritating. The audio is also the most pleasant I have flown with. The netto ball and McCready are easy to see and the McCready is super easy to adjust. The speed command page is OK but no big improvment over my SN10. It is also a complete navigation and final glide computer, but these features are not as convenient as with the big moving map displays. At this time you cannot enter a competition type task on the instrument, but I understand that is in the works. My Inertial sensor unit was defective and has been just been replaced and not flown. When it was working the real time wind information was bad ass. I could see a rapid shift of direction as I dropped through the normal shear from west to north at my home field, also I could map the winds on opposing sides of a convergence line. I suspect it might be helpfull when ridge soaring, although I have not tried that. I am not convinced that the vertical air mass/inertial information is of much help. I may learn to utilize it eventually. The artificial horizon is very cool and comforting, although will probably never be used. I see this instrument combined with a big moving map instrument such as LX9000, Clear Nav, or Ultimate as being the best setup possible today. The Butterfly being a great vario while providing redundancy for the navigation and final glide computers. I don't see much use for the Flarm page unless they make it appear automatically when traffic is near. The voice (bitching Betty) is not of much use to me because if I set it loud enough for me to hear, when flying,it is garbled. I am deaf as a post,however, as I think many of us are. I have found that installing an external speaker on the Flarm and using the Flarm displays is better. It is also a easy to use approved flight recorder.

To this I would only add that the VAM has several filters which change its behavior quite a lot. It may take some experimentation with those to get useful information.

I had to change out the speaker to get the Bitchen' Betty to sound good when she was all turned up. The audio quality is good, but requires a better speaker than is typically installed for vario beeps, and maybe a better one than is shipped with it. But I am not deaf as a post yet.

jfitch wrote, On 8/29/2013 5:46 PM:
On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:21:47 PM UTC-7,

I see this instrument combined with a big moving map
instrument such as LX9000, Clear Nav, or Ultimate as being the best
setup possible today. The Butterfly being a great vario while
providing redundancy for the navigation and final glide computers.
I don't see much use for the Flarm page unless they make it appear
automatically when traffic is near. The voice (bitching Betty) is
not of much use to me because if I set it loud enough for me to
hear, when flying,it is garbled. I am deaf as a post,however, as I
think many of us are. I have found that installing an external
speaker on the Flarm and using the Flarm displays is better. It is
also a easy to use approved flight recorder.

To this I would only add that the VAM has several filters which
change its behavior quite a lot. It may take some experimentation
with those to get useful information.

I had to change out the speaker to get the Bitchen' Betty to sound
good when she was all turned up. The audio quality is good, but
requires a better speaker than is typically installed for vario
beeps, and maybe a better one than is shipped with it. But I am not
deaf as a post yet.

I have ClearNav with a 302. I'm considering replacing the 302 with a
Butterfly or ClearNav vario for next season. Has anyone compared the
varios when connected to a ClearNav?

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)
- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm
http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

On Wednesday, 28 August 2013 18:13:51 UTC+3, wrote:
El martes, 27 de agosto de 2013 20:59:06 UTC-4, escribió:

Hello



The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market.



Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring



one but it as to be better than my LX 7000.



Thanks for your input.



Gilles



Hi

Not many comment on the variometer itself.

Is it a better variometer in difficult broken lift, hard to center thermal?

The zillion function can be found on many instrument it is a matter of taste.

Gilles

Butterfly TE-variometer is on a same level as best current varios (IMHO Zander 940/ZS1). You really can't develop TE pressure vario any better because TE pressure doesn't give you a very comprehensive picture of airmass. The VAM vario is something others don't have, and I think it is worth the premium. I look at VAM ball almost exclusively during glides.

BF vario is expensive, but you get 100% what you pay for. Display, build quality and support are first class. I think some of the bugs in software should have been fixed before release, but they have send new software versions very quickly.

krasw

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 7:18:54 PM UTC-7, Eric Greenwell wrote:
jfitch wrote, On 8/29/2013 5:46 PM:

On Thursday, August 29, 2013 5:21:47 PM UTC-7,



I see this instrument combined with a big moving map

instrument such as LX9000, Clear Nav, or Ultimate as being the best

setup possible today. The Butterfly being a great vario while

providing redundancy for the navigation and final glide computers.

I don't see much use for the Flarm page unless they make it appear

automatically when traffic is near. The voice (bitching Betty) is

not of much use to me because if I set it loud enough for me to

hear, when flying,it is garbled. I am deaf as a post,however, as I

think many of us are. I have found that installing an external

speaker on the Flarm and using the Flarm displays is better. It is

also a easy to use approved flight recorder.



To this I would only add that the VAM has several filters which

change its behavior quite a lot. It may take some experimentation

with those to get useful information.



I had to change out the speaker to get the Bitchen' Betty to sound

good when she was all turned up. The audio quality is good, but

requires a better speaker than is typically installed for vario

beeps, and maybe a better one than is shipped with it. But I am not

deaf as a post yet.



I have ClearNav with a 302. I'm considering replacing the 302 with a

Butterfly or ClearNav vario for next season. Has anyone compared the

varios when connected to a ClearNav?



--

Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to

email me)

- "Transponders in Sailplanes - Feb/2010" also ADS-B, PCAS, Flarm

http://tinyurl.com/yb3xywl

Eric - since the RS232 output from the Butterfly emulates either an LX1600 or CAI302 vario, I don't think you will see much difference on any PDA software that connects that way, with the exception that the wind will be much more up to date (if the PDA software in question uses the wind value in the NMEA sentences received). Another consideration is that the NMEA interface is fixed at 38K baud, while the CAI 302 is effectively fixed at 4800 baud, so the PDA software must be configurable enough to receive it. The Butterfly also does not seem to do the initial handshaking that the CAI302 expects (to turn on the data port), it just begins to broadcast as soon as it is booted. This cause some initial problems for me with some software, solved by running everything in the LX mode.

For my money, the Clearnav vario is a boring instrument compared to the Butterfly, looking distinctly 20th century. It virtues seem to be that it is cheaper, simpler, and no doubt well integrated with the Clearnav. And there are those who will say that, being built in the USA, if you are in the USA service is closer and quicker should it ever be needed.

I have ClearNav with a 302. I'm considering replacing the 302 with a

Butterfly or ClearNav vario for next season. Has anyone compared the

varios when connected to a ClearNav?



If you already have the ClearNav i would seriously consider the CN vario. It is a very good instrument and is built to communicate with the clear nav. I am very happy with performance, sensitivity and functionality after the recent software upgrades.

On Wednesday, 28 August 2013 01:59:06 UTC+1, wrote:
Hello

The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market.

Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring

one but it as to be better than my LX 7000.

Thanks for your input.

Gilles

For balance against all the enthusiasm for Clearnav and Butterfly, I would just like to say that I am using an LX 9000 (with V5 and AHRS) and find it superb. I am surprised that anyone would consider using any other vario than the V5 or V9 with the LX 9000 main unit. The LX 9000 voice system is very clear and I find it quite fun, but I am not sure that it adds much. I have turned off the voice warnings of Flarm traffic - I was getting far too many voice 'warnings' for non-conflicting traffic, and I find it better just to get an urgent beep for possible collision threats (I have a Butterfly display on all the time, and traffic also shows on the LX 9000 moving map).

At my club everyone with newish varios has been buying LX Navs, no Clearnavs or Butterflys.

I am not sure how we are going to know whether pilots with any one of these systems climb better than pilots with the others. And the infinite setup variations which they all offer will make it even more difficult to know whether one is better than the others. I must admit that even though I say the LX 9000 is superb, from the point of view of the vario alone I am perfectly happy with the 15 plus year old L Navs which we have in some of our club gliders.

Meanwhile, as a pure vario the Butterfly is far more expensive than the rivals - although it is reasonably good value if you also need an artificial horizon and an IGC logger. The navigation and flarm features seem too limited to be of relevance, and the back seat repeater is particularly expensive.

On Friday, August 30, 2013 3:53:20 PM UTC-7, waremark wrote:
On Wednesday, 28 August 2013 01:59:06 UTC+1, wrote:

Hello



The Butterfly vario was advertise has a revolution, well almost, on the market.



Is there any pilots using the Butterfly vario who care to comment on the advantages,if any, of this instrument? I am serously interested in acquiring



one but it as to be better than my LX 7000.



Thanks for your input.



Gilles



For balance against all the enthusiasm for Clearnav and Butterfly, I would just like to say that I am using an LX 9000 (with V5 and AHRS) and find it superb. I am surprised that anyone would consider using any other vario than the V5 or V9 with the LX 9000 main unit. The LX 9000 voice system is very clear and I find it quite fun, but I am not sure that it adds much. I have turned off the voice warnings of Flarm traffic - I was getting far too many voice 'warnings' for non-conflicting traffic, and I find it better just to get an urgent beep for possible collision threats (I have a Butterfly display on all the time, and traffic also shows on the LX 9000 moving map).



At my club everyone with newish varios has been buying LX Navs, no Clearnavs or Butterflys.



I am not sure how we are going to know whether pilots with any one of these systems climb better than pilots with the others. And the infinite setup variations which they all offer will make it even more difficult to know whether one is better than the others. I must admit that even though I say the LX 9000 is superb, from the point of view of the vario alone I am perfectly happy with the 15 plus year old L Navs which we have in some of our club gliders.



Meanwhile, as a pure vario the Butterfly is far more expensive than the rivals - although it is reasonably good value if you also need an artificial horizon and an IGC logger. The navigation and flarm features seem too limited to be of relevance, and the back seat repeater is particularly expensive.

You will get no voice warnings from the Butterfly for non-conflicting traffic - only for the same ones that would cause a warning on the Flarm display.. The only voice warnings on it I ignore are the "Spoilers Open" ones that I get when taxiing with the motor running. As far as value goes, the red and green pellet varios worked pretty well. Anything else is gravy, and you pay a bit for each feature you get. Considered historically, you can still buy a CAI 302/303 combo for $2835 or an SN10 for $3655 - that makes the Butterfly look like a pretty good value. But certainly if all you want is a basic vario there are far cheaper ways to go - even than the V5.

I agree, if you already have a clearnav, give serious consideration to the clearnav vario, I have well over 200 hours on mine and am extremely satisfied with it. If someone stole it from my glider today I would replace it with another without even giving consideration to the competition.