Some gliders safer than others?

The Scheibe trainers are enormously strong.
The Bergfalkes have a long travel sprung skid to absorb energy in a hard
landing.

Seen them being stress tested more than once and they have much more
give before damage than a modern glass design.

Conversely and unfortunately the seat design is so poor that - should
you reach the end of travel on the skid there is a virtual guarantee of
spinal injury.

I have seen enough fatal or serious injury wrecks to have no illusions
about how much protection that cockpit will provide. It is a little like
the adage , that if you want people to drive carefully one should
replace the airbag with a sharpened spike...

The best modern cockpits are a lot better than their predecessors, but
it is little comfort.

Bruce

On 2013/10/24 5:29 PM, Evan Ludeman wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 11:17:44 AM UTC-4, WB wrote:

I fly an early H-301 Libelle (serial #19). It has a significant safety

feature not seen in many other gliders. The fuselage is so thin that it

allows one see out if the canopy fogs over.



Seriously, Libelles would, in no way, be construed as having a "safety

cockpit", however, there have been relatively few fatalities in

Libelles. I think their slightly wobbly, unstable feel encourages pilots

to pay attention to their flying.



An extra helping of humor, on toasted wry. I'm going to chuckle about that all afternoon.

T8


--
Bruce Greeff
T59D #1771

Actually, I'd be more concerned with being impaled or having my abdomen shredded by shards of broken fiberglass... for this reason I've always thought old aluminum gliders with very low stall speeds were probably the safest gliders. Just an impression though.

On Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:35:45 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:
I know of a passenger that broke an ankle in a stalled 2-33 crash that broke the plane in two (behind the wing trailing edge)...

I only have anecdotes wrt survivability of 2-33 crashes, but your anecdote seems pretty favorable. I'd be happy to simply break an ankle and hop away from the front seat of a stalled and crashed glider.

On Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:13:10 AM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote:
I'm sure the "conventional wisdom" gives the nod to Schleicher.

Say what ? The modern Schleicher cockpits are huge
improvements over earlier designs, however:
- no crush zone in front of your feet to absorb energy and
decelerate the glider before your feet do
- a giant hole is cut in the side beam for air ventilation
output, reducing the buckling strength needed here

Again, please look at:

http://www.lange-aviation.com/htm/en...0e/safety.html

Hope that helps,
Best Regards, Dave "YO electric"

PS: Some of you will remember I donated a fuselage for crash
testing some decades back, hoping to help improve cockpit safety...

On Thursday, October 24, 2013 4:11:23 PM UTC-4, flgliderpilot wrote:
Actually, I'd be more concerned with being impaled or having my abdomen shredded by shards of broken fiberglass...

I understand that the Kevlar in the composite reduces this possibility.

On Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:52:38 PM UTC-4, Dave Nadler wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 10:13:10 AM UTC-4, Papa3 wrote: I'm sure the "conventional wisdom" gives the nod to Schleicher. Say what ? The modern Schleicher cockpits are huge improvements over earlier designs, however: - no crush zone in front of your feet to absorb energy and decelerate the glider before your feet do - a giant hole is cut in the side beam for air ventilation output, reducing the buckling strength needed here Again, please look at: http://www.lange-aviation.com/htm/en...0e/safety.html Hope that helps, Best Regards, Dave "YO electric" PS: Some of you will remember I donated a fuselage for crash testing some decades back, hoping to help improve cockpit safety...

A review of the lamination schemes for '24, 27, 28 reflects a designed in forward crush area in the nose with progressively stiffer structure once in the pilot protection zone. I have observed closely both a '24 and a'27 that had significant nose damage and niether had any failure in the area where the air vent is located. Waibel pioneered that aspect that others have wisely emulated.
UH

On Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:48:16 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:35:45 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:

I know of a passenger that broke an ankle in a stalled 2-33 crash that broke the plane in two (behind the wing trailing edge)...



I only have anecdotes wrt survivability of 2-33 crashes, but your anecdote seems pretty favorable. I'd be happy to simply break an ankle and hop away from the front seat of a stalled and crashed glider.

I was interested by this discussion and looked in the NTSB reports - if I am counting right, in the US, only one person has ever died in the back seat of a 2-33. Six people total have been killed, in five crashes. One of those who died was a suicide - no kidding, he actually left a note. No one has been killed in a 2-33 since 1978.

There have been 226 reported, non-fatal accidents. That makes 231 reported accidents total, with 2.16% being fatal.

on the suicide note subject. did that happen in Washington State?

GK



On Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:51:49 PM UTC-7, James Lee wrote:
On Thursday, October 24, 2013 5:48:16 PM UTC-4, son_of_flubber wrote:

On Thursday, October 24, 2013 12:35:45 PM UTC-4, kirk.stant wrote:



I know of a passenger that broke an ankle in a stalled 2-33 crash that broke the plane in two (behind the wing trailing edge)...







I only have anecdotes wrt survivability of 2-33 crashes, but your anecdote seems pretty favorable. I'd be happy to simply break an ankle and hop away from the front seat of a stalled and crashed glider.



I was interested by this discussion and looked in the NTSB reports - if I am counting right, in the US, only one person has ever died in the back seat of a 2-33. Six people total have been killed, in five crashes. One of those who died was a suicide - no kidding, he actually left a note. No one has been killed in a 2-33 since 1978.



There have been 226 reported, non-fatal accidents. That makes 231 reported accidents total, with 2.16% being fatal.

Brad, it looks like it was at Calistoga in 1975.

So flying a 2-33 actually drove someone to suicide? I can believe that.