"bush flying" in the suburbs?

Among other aircraft I've been looking at the Zenith Air STOL CH 801
lately, which attracted my attention purely as an inexpensive and eaily
built plane to cart my family around. http://www.zenithair.com

But the advertised 390-ft fully-loaded ground roll got me fantasizing
about all the convenient places I could land with a STOL bush plane.
Somebody give me a reality check -- even in relatively densely
populated suburbs, there are a number of large open fields suitable for
a bush plane. As it happens there is one such within walking distance
of my parents' house in the northern D.C. suburbs, and there are other
flattish largish open spaces near other places I visit. Has anybody on
these newsgroups had any luck convincing random private landowners to
let them land on their unimproved property? Anybody even tried? Are
there likely to be local ordinances prohibiting intentional off-airport
landings in the suburbs? Lets just leave aside for the moment the
pesky little question of whether I'm qualified for this kind of
adventuring...

wrote in message
ups.com...

But the advertised 390-ft fully-loaded ground roll got me fantasizing
about all the convenient places I could land with a STOL bush plane.
Somebody give me a reality check

Forget about it.

The first problem you have is the Washington DC ADIZ. Basically anything
within 30 nautical miles of DCA is *very* strictly controlled in terms of
arrivals and departures. Assuming you are within this ring there is no
chance you would be allowed to land and depart from anywhere except several
specially-designated fields and after a ton of other rigmarole.

But it is highly unlikely you'd ever get that far. First, there are enough
problems in suburbs with noise complaints coming from people who bought
houses built five years ago next to an airport that has been around since
the Wright bros. were still signing pilots' licenses. To get an idea of what
the world is coming to check out www.stopthenoise.org. This is up in Mass.,
which politically is pretty much the same crowd you get around the Beltway.

And the liability? Let's say your engine fails several hundred AGL on
takeoff. If you're really in the 'burbs then odds are good you're coming
down in a populated area. Whatever gets broken, that property owner whose
field you departed from is getting sued. Hopefully it's just somebody's
patio furniture and not something more difficult to replace.

As for the absolute legality of it, most populated areas have zoning boards
that exercise power approaching that of the Soviet Union. There are almost
certainly enough catch-alls in there to ensure that you would, at the very
least, have to spend a small fortune on lawyers in the process.

YMMV. Free advice is often worth every penny you pay for it.

-cwk.

The first problem you have is the Washington DC ADIZ
Hm, shoots that idea down....

wrote in message ups.com...
The first problem you have is the Washington DC ADIZ
Hm, shoots that idea down....


I hope we don't give up 'our' airspace that easily...

What do the helicopter folks do?

Go for it. It's not as uncommon as you might think. I live in
Oklahoma City and a couple of guys around here have Super Cubs or
Maules that they go goof around in. Within a very short flight most
cities there are vast areas of undeveloped land you can land a bush
plane on. Here we have two rivers with beautiful smooth sand bars,
several motor vehicle recreation areas and myriad fields.

A couple of years ago we had a guy in a Maule land in a field to drop
his son off at baseball practice at one of our high schools. The local
news station sent a truck out to cover the "crash." I think someone
called the fire department and they came out to watch him take back off
again. It's been a few years, but I think one of the news stations
interviewed the local police department who confirmed that there is
nothing illegal about landing an airplane in a field (duh).

However, check your local laws, most states have some rules about using
public roads as your own personal airstrip.

I landed in a field once to stop and talk to a land owner. We plopped
down next to his pickup truck and chatted for a while. Not really as
big a deal as you might think.


wrote:
Among other aircraft I've been looking at the Zenith Air STOL CH 801
lately, which attracted my attention purely as an inexpensive and
eaily
built plane to cart my family around. http://www.zenithair.com

But the advertised 390-ft fully-loaded ground roll got me fantasizing
about all the convenient places I could land with a STOL bush plane.
Somebody give me a reality check -- even in relatively densely
populated suburbs, there are a number of large open fields suitable
for
a bush plane. As it happens there is one such within walking
distance
of my parents' house in the northern D.C. suburbs, and there are
other
flattish largish open spaces near other places I visit. Has anybody
on
these newsgroups had any luck convincing random private landowners to
let them land on their unimproved property? Anybody even tried? Are
there likely to be local ordinances prohibiting intentional
off-airport
landings in the suburbs? Lets just leave aside for the moment the
pesky little question of whether I'm qualified for this kind of
adventuring...

wrote:


However, check your local laws, most states have some rules about using
public roads as your own personal airstrip.

Yep, here in Montana it is legal to land on roads. See this months
AOPA, page 62 for what happens when you don't do it right.

That's how flying ought to be. It shouldn't be any more complicated than a
drive in the country or taking a tractor out on the field.

Shawn
wrote in message
ups.com...
Go for it. It's not as uncommon as you might think. I live in
Oklahoma City and a couple of guys around here have Super Cubs or
Maules that they go goof around in. Within a very short flight most
cities there are vast areas of undeveloped land you can land a bush
plane on. Here we have two rivers with beautiful smooth sand bars,
several motor vehicle recreation areas and myriad fields.

A couple of years ago we had a guy in a Maule land in a field to drop
his son off at baseball practice at one of our high schools. The local
news station sent a truck out to cover the "crash." I think someone
called the fire department and they came out to watch him take back off
again. It's been a few years, but I think one of the news stations
interviewed the local police department who confirmed that there is
nothing illegal about landing an airplane in a field (duh).

However, check your local laws, most states have some rules about using
public roads as your own personal airstrip.

I landed in a field once to stop and talk to a land owner. We plopped
down next to his pickup truck and chatted for a while. Not really as
big a deal as you might think.


wrote:
Among other aircraft I've been looking at the Zenith Air STOL CH 801
lately, which attracted my attention purely as an inexpensive and
eaily
built plane to cart my family around. http://www.zenithair.com

But the advertised 390-ft fully-loaded ground roll got me fantasizing
about all the convenient places I could land with a STOL bush plane.
Somebody give me a reality check -- even in relatively densely
populated suburbs, there are a number of large open fields suitable
for
a bush plane. As it happens there is one such within walking
distance
of my parents' house in the northern D.C. suburbs, and there are
other
flattish largish open spaces near other places I visit. Has anybody
on
these newsgroups had any luck convincing random private landowners to
let them land on their unimproved property? Anybody even tried? Are
there likely to be local ordinances prohibiting intentional
off-airport
landings in the suburbs? Lets just leave aside for the moment the
pesky little question of whether I'm qualified for this kind of
adventuring...

writes:

However, check your local laws, most states have some rules about using
public roads as your own personal airstrip.

I've not succeeded at getting this information from my state (Indiana).
AOPA has been less than useless on the topic. They shut down discussion
of the legalities and just berate me for even thinking about landing a
plane anywhere other than at a declared airport.

I need to take it up with the county. I keep forgetting when I'm with
the Sheriff...

--kyler

On 7 Dec 2004 05:28:01 -0800, wrote:

However, check your local laws, most states have some rules about using
public roads as your own personal airstrip.

Some few years ago I was heli-skiing out of Valemount BC. This was
before the operator built a lodge; he was using a commercial motel.
The Huey parked overnight in a circle out front.

I flew up to Valemount in the back of a Piper Cub (J-4 or J-5, can't
rememer which). The local "FBO" came out to fuel it from a 55 gallon
drum in the back of a pickup. However long the airstrip was, it wasn't
long enough for the next plane to bring a client in. That was a
private twin of some sort.

So the Mounties closed off the highway in front of the Valemount
Motel. The plane landed and taxied into the motel parking lot. The
Mounties behaved as if this were all in the day's work.

Presumably the couple took off again the same way. They were from
Texas, and the girlfriend wore dark glasses and a shawl like Jackie
Onassis.

all the best -- Dan Ford
email: (put Cubdriver in subject line)

Warbird's Forum www.warbirdforum.com
Piper Cub Forum www.pipercubforum.com
the blog www.danford.net

On 6 Dec 2004 21:07:51 -0800, wrote:

Are
there likely to be local ordinances prohibiting intentional off-airport
landings in the suburbs?

In NJ you can't land anywhere except and approved landing facility,
which puts the kabosh on your plan for this state. However in PA and
NY you can land anywhere you want with prior permission from the
owner. I used to know a helicopter pilot who flew Santa in and out of
a small field in town, and someone else who'd take their 180 up to NY
and land on his buddies farm.

Milage varies from state to state.
z