Which 18m FES sailplane to buy?

I just bought an Antares 20E awesome ship very easy to fly! 10-12 sec extend retract time. SIMPLE engine control full forward with power lever and 10-12 seconds later you are climbing. Launch to 2000' about 12-15% of battery power. Recharges with automatic shutdown in the trailer!

On Friday, December 11, 2015 at 8:10:48 PM UTC-5, Tom (2N0) wrote:
I just bought an Antares 20E awesome ship very easy to fly!
10-12 sec extend retract time. SIMPLE engine control full forward
with power lever and 10-12 seconds later you are climbing.
Launch to 2000' about 12-15% of battery power.
Recharges with automatic shutdown in the trailer!

Yup. Mine's still for sale, at a bargain price:
http://wingsandwheels.com/class/index.php?id=685
http://youtu.be/uEOSUOLq29Q

On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 17:01:17 -0800, Bruce Hoult wrote:

I don't know about a "shove" on the stick, but before I got rated in it
I practiced flying at 65 knots or so and moving the flap lever fairly
quickly between -7 and landing flap and back repeatedly, while having no
noticeable change in G loading or airspeed.

In that case its a glider-specific issue. If I simply moved the flaps
from zero to landing, my ASW-20 lost 10-15 kts 'like that', but a
simultaneous shove on the stick made the speed loss go away.

Actually, its not all that different different to the SZD Puchacz, where
opening the brakes tends to cause a slight pitch-up and loss of speed,
also eliminated with a simultaneous push on the stick.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 7:58:37 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:

In that case its a glider-specific issue. If I simply moved the flaps
from zero to landing, my ASW-20 lost 10-15 kts 'like that', but a
simultaneous shove on the stick made the speed loss go away.

Did the guy that signed of your type transition run you through any of this? He should have...

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 8:15:16 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 7:58:37 AM UTC-5, Martin Gregorie wrote:

In that case its a glider-specific issue. If I simply moved the flaps
from zero to landing, my ASW-20 lost 10-15 kts 'like that', but a
simultaneous shove on the stick made the speed loss go away.

Did the guy that signed of your type transition run you through any of this? He should have...

Inadvertent post. "Signed off", not "of".

Anyhow: with powerful flaps in most any glider or power plane one has to coordinate flap, elevator & trim. Shouldn't have been a surprise.

Evan Ludeman / T8

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 3:58:37 PM UTC+3, Martin Gregorie wrote:
On Fri, 11 Dec 2015 17:01:17 -0800, Bruce Hoult wrote:

I don't know about a "shove" on the stick, but before I got rated in it
I practiced flying at 65 knots or so and moving the flap lever fairly
quickly between -7 and landing flap and back repeatedly, while having no
noticeable change in G loading or airspeed.

In that case its a glider-specific issue. If I simply moved the flaps
from zero to landing, my ASW-20 lost 10-15 kts 'like that', but a
simultaneous shove on the stick made the speed loss go away.

Certainly. And gain altitude at the same time.

Increasing flaps gives a bigger coefficient of lift at the same angle of attack. If you want to keep the same AMOUNT of lift, at the same speed, then you have to simultaneously reduce the angle of attack.

But it's not a "shove" .. it's a precise and co-ordinated movement of two controls at the same time. The same as co-ordinating the use of aileron and rudder.

In the case of landing flap, there is also a fair bit of extra drag, so you also have to lower the nose a little to compensate for the drag, as well as lowering it to decrease the angle of attack. Drag is not really a factor in moving between -ve and thermalling flap (at reasonable speed), it's just the CL change in that case.

On Saturday, December 12, 2015 at 8:19:57 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:

Anyhow: with powerful flaps in most any glider or power plane one has to coordinate flap, elevator & trim. Shouldn't have been a surprise.

Evan Ludeman / T8

I agree, my "pre flapped glider checkout" was done in a Cessna 150. We went up to altitude and played with flap settings while observing what the pitch attitude & AS did.
After that was some cockpit time (on the ground)in a SGS-1-35, then a flight. Followed quickly by a PIK-20 & a ASW-20. The 150 was good since it had more flap deflection than a 152 and was really draggy.
We didn't have any 2 seat flapped gliders on the field (late 70's) for dual training, but I did have ~200 hours in a 1-26 along with hours in a 1-34 and others.

It worked for me, no real surprises. The ASW-20 was a bit easier, I could set the flaps (usually thermal flaps) and then fly the dive brakes "like normal" in the pattern, unlike the other 2.

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 05:19:55 -0800, Tango Eight wrote:

Anyhow: with powerful flaps in most any glider or power plane one has to
coordinate flap, elevator & trim. Shouldn't have been a surprise.

I don't remember saying I found it a surprise. Please don't put words in
my mouth.


--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

On Sat, 12 Dec 2015 05:49:22 -0800, Bruce Hoult wrote:

But it's not a "shove" .. it's a precise and co-ordinated movement of
two controls at the same time. The same as co-ordinating the use of
aileron and rudder.

Indeed. Shorthand term, OK?

n
--
martin@ | Martin Gregorie
gregorie. | Essex, UK
org |

Another advantage to the 13.5 meter gliders like the Silent is that when fitted with an FES system they are not just sustainers but self-launchers. Hence the Silent Electro is a real self-launcher. No more waiting for a $50 tow.