'Canopy Wire Deflector Bars' - Past experience and current thinking

I thought the wire strike kits for landing accidents, couldn't stop before a wire fence and could hit the fence post. A wire strike while flying has a host of other difficulties. Helicopters commonly had wire strike kits installed, and as part of the kit that are cutters above and below the aircraft. I have seen swing tests of these kits, but would not want to try it myself.

I have personally know three helicopter pilots that hit wires, all three knew the wires were there and momentarily "forgot". This happened to me once, but I did not hit the wire. Did have a conversation with a glider pilot who while landing out observed the wires, planned a landing to ovoid the wires, then completely forgot his plan and that the wires were there, only remembered after safety landing and exiting the glider.

Bottom line: have wires as part of your off field landing check list: Wild Women Seek Sex, Wind Wires Slope Speed

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 1:44:33 PM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 2:02:34 PM UTC-5, Mark628CA wrote:
does anybody have a viable design that will work with a modern sailplane?

Pure speculation.

For light gauge electric horse coral wires... Maybe a firmly mounted 'hook knife'mounted on a 12" whip to the fuselage just in front of the canopy might catch and cut wires (more often than not). Integrate it into an externally mounted Powerflarm antenna. Mount two. One on either side to get the sight blocking off center and gain redundancy (redundant antennas and cutter).

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 4:44:33 PM UTC-5, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 2:02:34 PM UTC-5, Mark628CA wrote:
does anybody have a viable design that will work with a modern sailplane?

Pure speculation.

For light gauge electric horse coral wires... Maybe a firmly mounted 'hook knife'mounted on a 12" whip to the fuselage just in front of the canopy might catch and cut wires (more often than not). Integrate it into an externally mounted Powerflarm antenna. Mount two. One on either side to get the sight blocking off center and gain redundancy (redundant antennas and cutter).

Why would you do that when there is technology that is demonstrated to work already in existence- and not ugly and dangerous to line crew also?
UH

Am Dienstag, 8. Dezember 2015 20:02:35 UTC+1 schrieb Sean Fidler:
Here are some photos from inside (and outside) of my glider which has wire protection bars.

https://www.icloud.com/sharedalbum/#B0V5aVbMKXgkQp

At first they drove me nuts. I felt like I was in a cage. It bothered my visibility. But after 10 flights or so I do not even notice they are there. I somehow learned to unconsciously adjust my head as needed to make sure I have cleared any blind spots.

These wire strike accidents are rare but still happen. A glider just ran into wires during a contest this fall at New Castle a couple months ago. Thankfully, the pilot was OK. I'm not sure if the wires hit the canopy or not, but it does make me feel better having at least some, minimal protection on my glider.

I will admit I was very close to removing them at first.

7T

What are the ugly antenna mountings on the glare shield for?

Bert
Ventus cM TW

Lol! Well gee thanks!

Those are, of course, the Flarm and ADSB antennas. That was a quick and dirty test installation (wanted the ability to move them and find the best signal) with cheap plastic brackets and industrial Velcro. I was planning to update the entire panel shortly after that. I have simply not had the time or, frankly, the need to change it. It works perfectly fine (2-3 mile range usually, sometimes a bit more) and I like the "rugged ambiance" it creates. Somebody once said to me, "this kinda looks like my Grandpas Russian Stuka bomber cockpit from the war." I kinda liked that! No fancy instruments here. Just a big window and a steel cage! I do hope to pretty it up but don't see a lot of free time ahead. Thanks for the "encouragement!"

Stuka bombers were German, they would never look like your panel! Looks more like the Mir space station toward the end of it's life.

On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 8:13:06 AM UTC-8, Sean Fidler wrote:
Lol! Well gee thanks!

Those are, of course, the Flarm and ADSB antennas. That was a quick and dirty test installation (wanted the ability to move them and find the best signal) with cheap plastic brackets and industrial Velcro. I was planning to update the entire panel shortly after that. I have simply not had the time or, frankly, the need to change it. It works perfectly fine (2-3 mile range usually, sometimes a bit more) and I like the "rugged ambiance" it creates. Somebody once said to me, "this kinda looks like my Grandpas Russian Stuka bomber cockpit from the war." I kinda liked that! No fancy instruments here. Just a big window and a steel cage! I do hope to pretty it up but don't see a lot of free time ahead. Thanks for the "encouragement!"

German, Russian, whatever...;-)

Mercedes-Benz, Lada, whatever... ;0

On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 8:37:25 AM UTC-8, Sean Fidler wrote:
German, Russian, whatever...;-)

On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 5:20:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Why would you do that when there is technology that is demonstrated to work already in existence- and not ugly and dangerous to line crew also?
UH

Demonstrated to work? It's been demonstrated that only a few people feel that the potential benefits of the cage outweigh the immediate drawbacks. A device that practically no one adopts is not a successful engineering solution to a problem.

Say we mount something like the new external Flarm antenna on the nose just in front of the canopy and put a cutter on top. Something relatively cheap that works on practically any glider, that is integrated with something that you get a more immediate benefit from (aka Flarm). A wire cutting device that gets installed on a whole bunch of gliders will avert more injuries in total than a few cages (even if it were to work only half the time).

And sure of course, you'd want a slotted device that blocked the entry of ground crew fingers, a slot that lets a wire slide in and contact the blade. http://www.galls.com/photos/styles/KN208_500_1.JPG

As Jonathan pointed out 'wire strike kits' are used on helicopters. Lots of products and studies on the web. You'd not need something so big on a glider.

The wire cutter idea has been around for a long time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_cutter_(jeep)

The wire cutters on helicopters are big and while sexy on a helicopter (give it a bad ass look) they would be nothing but drag inducers on gliders. Plus a helicopter operates down low in the dirt (we call it the money curve, as it is out of the HV safety zone). Helicopters need the wire cutters. Gliders are low when landing out and I think it cannot be stated too many times pilots that know of the wires often get distracted and forget the wires are there, so modify and drill into your head WIRES in any off field landing check list. I have been one of those pilots that knew the wires were there and almost hit them (while flying a helicopter).

I seem to remember some very good books by Tom Knauff about off field landings and avoiding wires.

Maybe one of the new data bases will map all the wires and we can upload the data base to our computers, Flarm or whatnots.



On Wednesday, December 9, 2015 at 11:14:21 AM UTC-8, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 5:20:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Why would you do that when there is technology that is demonstrated to work already in existence- and not ugly and dangerous to line crew also?
UH

Demonstrated to work? It's been demonstrated that only a few people feel that the potential benefits of the cage outweigh the immediate drawbacks. A device that practically no one adopts is not a successful engineering solution to a problem.

Say we mount something like the new external Flarm antenna on the nose just in front of the canopy and put a cutter on top. Something relatively cheap that works on practically any glider, that is integrated with something that you get a more immediate benefit from (aka Flarm). A wire cutting device that gets installed on a whole bunch of gliders will avert more injuries in total than a few cages (even if it were to work only half the time).

And sure of course, you'd want a slotted device that blocked the entry of ground crew fingers, a slot that lets a wire slide in and contact the blade. http://www.galls.com/photos/styles/KN208_500_1.JPG

As Jonathan pointed out 'wire strike kits' are used on helicopters. Lots of products and studies on the web. You'd not need something so big on a glider.

The wire cutter idea has been around for a long time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_cutter_(jeep)

Gliders generally don't fly the same profile as helicopters.

I can see the benefit of all those externally mounted wire cutters/flarm
antennae - more drag! Since my glider won't be so equipped, I'll
realize an immediate benefit!

On 12/9/2015 12:14 PM, son_of_flubber wrote:
On Tuesday, December 8, 2015 at 5:20:43 PM UTC-5, wrote:

Why would you do that when there is technology that is demonstrated to work already in existence- and not ugly and dangerous to line crew also?
UH
Demonstrated to work? It's been demonstrated that only a few people feel that the potential benefits of the cage outweigh the immediate drawbacks. A device that practically no one adopts is not a successful engineering solution to a problem.

Say we mount something like the new external Flarm antenna on the nose just in front of the canopy and put a cutter on top. Something relatively cheap that works on practically any glider, that is integrated with something that you get a more immediate benefit from (aka Flarm). A wire cutting device that gets installed on a whole bunch of gliders will avert more injuries in total than a few cages (even if it were to work only half the time).

And sure of course, you'd want a slotted device that blocked the entry of ground crew fingers, a slot that lets a wire slide in and contact the blade. http://www.galls.com/photos/styles/KN208_500_1.JPG

As Jonathan pointed out 'wire strike kits' are used on helicopters. Lots of products and studies on the web. You'd not need something so big on a glider.

The wire cutter idea has been around for a long time
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wire_cutter_(jeep)


--
Dan, 5J