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#41
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FAA Control tower Abandoned
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in
ink.net: "beavis" wrote in message ... There's your answer. If the tower is closed, there's no-one to issue RVR reports; the ASOS won't do it. Further, the charts specifically say that Cat II (and III) minimums are NA when the tower is closed. With no operating tower, they require Cat I minimums, which are 1/2 mile for both 05 and 23. So what they said was true: They couldn't land because there was no-one in the tower. No, what they said was false: They couldn't land because the weather was below minimums for all available approaches. What the pilots are reported to have said to their passengers is irrelevant. Based on the available information it would seem that the pilots made a sensible decision, How the cranky passengers interpreted and relayed the on-air announcement to NBC reporters doesn't change that fact. And how the sensationalist reporter spins it is even moreso irrelevant. If you read the story carefully, it is even possible to interpret that the pilot announced to the passengers that the combination of the tower being closed and the weather being below minimums left them with no safe, legal options to land at PVD, but that the reporter left out that important detail. After all, there is no direct quote of what the Pilot said, only a statement that, "NBC 10's Audrey Laganas reported that the planes turned around in flight just before midnight. The passengers said the pilots told them they were turning back because there was no one in the control tower at T.F. Green Airport." But the angry mother of an infant who refused to buy formula or Daipers in Baltimore at 1am didn't seem to complain about the diversion, just about how she and others were left in a challenging situation as a result. And the woman travelling with her mother didn't complain about being diverted, only about being treated like "cattle". A more accurate news headline would have been, "Diverted Passengers Complain". But how much more engaging is "Southwest Planes Turn Around Minutes From Green"... |
#42
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FAA Control tower Abandoned
Robert Chambers wrote:
Steven P. McNicoll wrote: "Robert Chambers" wrote in message . com... You fly to an airport, the tower is open, you don't think the tower is open and you land anyway? You've entered class D without establishing communications 91.129(c)1 then you've just landed without a clearance 91.129(i) So yes you've been naughty and will most likely be asked to call the tower. You can't enter Class D airspace if it's outside the hours the Class D airspace is in effect. So by that logic, for example if PVD's tower controllers said "ok SWA 1234 we will stick around for another 30 minutes" - SWA 1234 still wouldn't be allowed to shoot the CAT II approach because the tower was not in operation because it was outside the normal operating hours? No, you're confusing different topics. The Class II, III approach requires the tower to be open, it doesn't require a certain type of airspace to be in effect. For example, our local tower would sometimes stay open late (past 11pm in this case) to facilitate certain users. During this time the tower was open and talking, but they were providing advisory services only. The airspace above this airport reverted to Class G up to 700' after 11pm, and that still occurred even if the tower stayed OPEN late. (No idea why it didn't become Class E to the surface since it had a certified ASOS, but probably because nobody felt like changing the rules for that airport.) |
#43
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FAA Control tower Abandoned
Judah wrote: What the pilots are reported to have said to their passengers is irrelevant. Based on the available information it would seem that the pilots made a sensible decision, How the cranky passengers interpreted and relayed the on-air announcement to NBC reporters doesn't change that fact. And how the sensationalist reporter spins it is even moreso irrelevant. Perhaps, but what Southwest is reported to have said through their spokeswoman is quite relevant: "We made the request for both flights for the tower to stay open, and the local tower refused. Once they refused, we had no choice but to return back to Baltimore because we need the guidance of air traffic controllers to land in the weather conditions that were present," spokeswoman Whitney Eichinger said. If you read the story carefully, it is even possible to interpret that the pilot announced to the passengers that the combination of the tower being closed and the weather being below minimums left them with no safe, legal options to land at PVD, but that the reporter left out that important detail. After all, there is no direct quote of what the Pilot said, only a statement that, "NBC 10's Audrey Laganas reported that the planes turned around in flight just before midnight. The passengers said the pilots told them they were turning back because there was no one in the control tower at T.F. Green Airport." If that's what the pilot said it's still wrong. With the weather below minimums they couldn't land at PVD whether the tower was open or closed. Since the tower did stay late to accommodate the approach that was missed it appears it was strictly the weather that prevented a landing. |
#44
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FAA Control tower Abandoned
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in oups.com:
Judah wrote: What the pilots are reported to have said to their passengers is irrelevant. Based on the available information it would seem that the pilots made a sensible decision, How the cranky passengers interpreted and relayed the on-air announcement to NBC reporters doesn't change that fact. And how the sensationalist reporter spins it is even moreso irrelevant. Perhaps, but what Southwest is reported to have said through their spokeswoman is quite relevant: "We made the request for both flights for the tower to stay open, and the local tower refused. Once they refused, we had no choice but to return back to Baltimore because we need the guidance of air traffic controllers to land in the weather conditions that were present," spokeswoman Whitney Eichinger said. I completely agree. It is consistent with the rest of the evidence... If you read the story carefully, it is even possible to interpret that the pilot announced to the passengers that the combination of the tower being closed and the weather being below minimums left them with no safe, legal options to land at PVD, but that the reporter left out that important detail. After all, there is no direct quote of what the Pilot said, only a statement that, "NBC 10's Audrey Laganas reported that the planes turned around in flight just before midnight. The passengers said the pilots told them they were turning back because there was no one in the control tower at T.F. Green Airport." If that's what the pilot said it's still wrong. With the weather below minimums they couldn't land at PVD whether the tower was open or closed. Since the tower did stay late to accommodate the approach that was missed it appears it was strictly the weather that prevented a landing. I thought the weather was below minimums BECAUSE the tower had closed? To my understanding, if the tower was open, there would have been approach options available with lower minimums. In any event, I think we're in agreement. |
#45
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FAA Control tower Abandoned
"Judah" wrote in message . .. I thought the weather was below minimums BECAUSE the tower had closed? To my understanding, if the tower was open, there would have been approach options available with lower minimums. The tower stayed open beyond the published closing time to accommodate an approach which was missed. The tower must be open for Cat II and Cat III approaches, but it is not known that the crew was capable of those anyway. |
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