Why did Bush join the national guard?

Pete wrote:

"ArtKramr" wrote


Bush refused to vounteer. And he did it in writing.


6 million of the 9 million people on active duty during the Vietnam era
never saw SEA. Will you belittle their service as well?

Pete


I'm sure he will. After all, they didn't ride in B-26's in WWII, so to
Art, their service is meaningless.

JPH

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 9/5/2004 1:09 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
Jack G wrote:
OK Art, tell that to a combat Marine - face to face. If all that
happens is
he asks you where you fought - and then laughs in your face when you
tell
him you will be a very lucky man.
Jack G.

Just for the record, Jack, during WWII, the 8th Air Force sustained
more
casualties over Europe than the entire United States Marine Corps did
world-wide
throughout the entire war. If you don't believe me, just ask Google
the
right
questions and they'll provide the same answer that I just did....I know
because
I've already done it.

You must have done it wrong. "Half of the U.S. Army Air Forces'
casualties
in World War II were suffered by Eighth Air Force (more than 47,000
casualties with more than 26,000 dead)."
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...y/usaf/8af.htm )

USMC casualties for the war totalled some ninety thousand, out of some
669K
who served in the USMC. Last I heard 90K was more than 47K. True, more
8th
AF personnel *died* in combat than Marines, but that is not what you
said.

Your use of "casualty" is normally inclusive of wounded, deaths due to
other
than combat causes, and MIA.

Brooks


George Z.




And exactly what is your combat experience wannabee? Marines? Air Corps? A
desk
in the states? Anything at all?

I was born in 1962. A bit late for WWII, OK? Now, that said, the numbers
speak for themselves--or are you going to say the old War Department
statistics are all wrong? And for the last time--NOBODY wants to be you, OK?
Who wants to become a sad, whining, bitter little twit with a serious
self-esteem problem like the sorry excuse for a man that you have become?

Brooks





Arthur Kramer

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 9/5/2004 1:18 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
Thomas J. Paladino Jr. wrote:

And for the record, when a proposal was floated to send F102s to
Vietnam,
Bush put his name in as a volunteer, however the powers that be
decided
not
to use the plane.

For the same record, when he first applied for flying training, he
indicated on
his application that he did NOT desire an overseas assignment.

Duh. He was in a National Guard unit. He could have put a big smiley face
in
the other block and it would have made no difference. His duty assignment
was already set in concrete--he was going to return to his unit, the same
one that sent him to flight school in the first place. You are incapable
of
understanding the differences between ANG and active component
operations,
aren't you?


And he had only
300 flying hours in the F-102 when he volunteered for overseas duty
after
he had
been told that they wouldn't consider anybody with less than 500 hours.

Nope, he first asked about Palace Alert, and was *then* told they were
then
using the 500 hour limit; you have it all basackwards, as usual.

It was
a pretty safe thing to do.....asking for something you knew in advance
they
weren't going to give you.

Wrong again. You have been told this before, so I guess your continued
use
of this tack is just your usual dishonest nature coming through
again...Palace Alert did not maintain a set-in-concrete 500 hour
experience
requirement. The required experience level fluctuated based upon the pool
of
volunteers they then had--which is why later, as the program wound down,
a
mere junior LT found himself flying Palace Alert duty out of Iceland and
participating in one of the USAF's last F-102 intercepts of a Soviet
aircraft.


That's just for the record, of course.

Then your records are all screwed up.

Brooks


George Z.




We are talking about military flying.

No, you are engaging in your usual political bashing attempt.

A subject in which you have no experience
whatever and therefore no right to comment.

Translation of the above: "I can't address your specific comments, so I'll
try to bluster my way out of the crap pile I again find myself in."

What a sad little demented creature you have turned into in your old age--or
were you always such an idiot?

Brooks





Arthur Kramer

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: J Haggerty
Date: 9/5/2004 6:55 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: dsP_c.5279$OZ6.1847@okepread06

Why did you join the Army Air Corps instead of the infantry, Navy, Coast
Guard, or Marines?

Good question that deserves a serious answer. I was in my senior year at
Abraham Lincoln High School in New York. We were visited by recruiting officers
from the Air Corps,, The Navy and the Marines. They made extensive
presentations about just what it would be like to join their services. They had
combat veterans back from action address us and tell us how much we were needed
and what it would be like to serve with them. I was taken by two presentations;
the Army AIr Corps and the Navy V5 program which was naval aviation. I opted
for the Air Corps. I had to take a lot of tests; written oral and physical Upon
passing all of them I was informed that I was accepted as an AIr Corps Cadet
candidate and would be called up after my high school graduation. I was
interested in the Naval aviation program almost as much as the AAC presntaion
but since I could only shoose one I took the Army Air corps. As the term came
to an end I anxiously awaited my graduation and my call up into the Air Cadet
program. But I had one overiding fear. I was afraid the war would end before I
got there. It didn't. But I never for one moment considered joining the
reserve. I really wanted ot go to war, not avoid it.But i was very young.But
the rest of the guys in my HS class flet just as I did. And of all of us that
chose the Army AIr Corps from that class, I was the only surivor.




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

"B2431" wrote in message
...
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/5/2004 2:49 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: . net


"B2431" wrote in message
...

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 11:59 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Why did Bush join the National Guard instrae do the Army, Navy or
Air Force?
why?


He DID go into the Air Force. The ANG is a component of the USAF.


Yes, but Art asked about the National Guard.

Which is a component of the Army which Bush never clauims to have joined.

Not exactly. "The National Guard" would most accurately describe the federal
umbrella organization, represented at its highest by the National Guard
Bureau (NGB). Which as an entity is not slotted under either the Army or Air
Force, but is instead a joint bureau that reports to *both* of those service
component headquarters. The chief of NGB (currently an ARNG three star, but
it usually rotates from service to service) has deputies who oversee each of
the two components, ARNG and ANG.

Brooks


Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 9/5/2004 7:29 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 9/5/2004 1:09 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
Jack G wrote:
OK Art, tell that to a combat Marine - face to face. If all that
happens is
he asks you where you fought - and then laughs in your face when you
tell
him you will be a very lucky man.
Jack G.

Just for the record, Jack, during WWII, the 8th Air Force sustained
more
casualties over Europe than the entire United States Marine Corps did
world-wide
throughout the entire war. If you don't believe me, just ask Google
the
right
questions and they'll provide the same answer that I just did....I know
because
I've already done it.

You must have done it wrong. "Half of the U.S. Army Air Forces'
casualties
in World War II were suffered by Eighth Air Force (more than 47,000
casualties with more than 26,000 dead)."
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...y/usaf/8af.htm )

USMC casualties for the war totalled some ninety thousand, out of some
669K
who served in the USMC. Last I heard 90K was more than 47K. True, more
8th
AF personnel *died* in combat than Marines, but that is not what you
said.

Your use of "casualty" is normally inclusive of wounded, deaths due to
other
than combat causes, and MIA.

Brooks


George Z.




And exactly what is your combat experience wannabee? Marines? Air Corps? A
desk
in the states? Anything at all?

I was born in 1962. A bit late for WWII, OK? Now, that said, the numbers
speak for themselves--or are you going to say the old War Department
statistics are all wrong? And for the last time--NOBODY wants to be you, OK?
Who wants to become a sad, whining, bitter little twit with a serious
self-esteem problem like the sorry excuse for a man that you have become?

Brooks





Arthur Kramer


So you admit to your sniveling military cowardice. I thought so

Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (Peter Stickney)
Date: 9/5/2004 6:38 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

In article ,
(ArtKramr) writes:
Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/5/2004 2:47 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: et


"Thomas J. Paladino Jr." wrote in message
.. .

And as far as I know, nobody was flying B26's during the Vietnam era.


Well, not Martin B-26s.


And the highest rate of killing its crews.One a day in Tampa Bay. The
widowmaker, The B-dash-Crash.The flying Prostitute, The Flying Coffin.
Got it
now wannabee?

Art, The Army Air Force Statistical Digest disagrees with you. While
the Martin B-26 had the highest accident rate of any _Medium_ Bomber
(Medium being the B-25, B-26, and the Lockheed B-34), it never
approached the accident rate of the A-20, which had roughly twice teh
number lost per 100,000 Flight Hours, and all of the various
Fighter/Pursuit types.

Those aren't subjective impressions - they're hard facts, backed up by
the cold, unfeeling numbers.


But the frigging A-20 was yanked out of service while we flew B-26 in combat
to the bitter end. And of course you never had to fly the B-26 so what the
hell did you care?




Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

ArtKramr wrote:

Wanna live? Join anything but the Air Forces.. Or fly
B-52's over Iraq.

LOL...old man, you can bait me all you want, discredit my service to your
hearts content, I'll proudly stand in with the long line of men you've already
slandered. All you know about B-52s and Iraq was that we didn't lose any.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

ArtKramr wrote:

Get back to me after you have fought in a real war.

Which by your definition would be impossible. The only Kramer recognized "real
war" was the ETO between 1943-1945. Since my parents were both born in 1944, by
birth I was assured of not fighting in a Kramer recognized "real war".

You are sad, sad old man....

The
Army AIr Corps had the highest percentage

Wrong.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"

ArtKramr wrote:

It makes my opinion far more valid than anyone who never flew a mission
including you.

You forgot the caveat of "real war" which includes only B-26s in the ETO
between 1943 and 1945.


BUFDRVR

"Stay on the bomb run boys, I'm gonna get those bomb doors open if it harelips
everyone on Bear Creek"