Why did Bush join the national guard?

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 3:56 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 9/5/2004 1:09 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"George Z. Bush" wrote in message
...
Jack G wrote:
OK Art, tell that to a combat Marine - face to face. If all that
happens is
he asks you where you fought - and then laughs in your face when you
tell
him you will be a very lucky man.
Jack G.

Just for the record, Jack, during WWII, the 8th Air Force sustained more
casualties over Europe than the entire United States Marine Corps did
world-wide
throughout the entire war. If you don't believe me, just ask Google the
right
questions and they'll provide the same answer that I just did....I know
because
I've already done it.

You must have done it wrong. "Half of the U.S. Army Air Forces' casualties
in World War II were suffered by Eighth Air Force (more than 47,000
casualties with more than 26,000 dead)."
(http://www.globalsecurity.org/milita...y/usaf/8af.htm )

USMC casualties for the war totalled some ninety thousand, out of some 669K
who served in the USMC. Last I heard 90K was more than 47K. True, more 8th
AF personnel *died* in combat than Marines, but that is not what you said.

Your use of "casualty" is normally inclusive of wounded, deaths due to other
than combat causes, and MIA.

Brooks


George Z.




And exactly what is your combat experience wannabee? Marines? Air Corps? A
desk
in the states? Anything at all?




Arthur Kramer

I get it now, being a passenger on a B-26 makes you an expert on WW2 casualties
and an expert on all things 8th AF? Get over yourself, art, the facts and
figures in print are derived from official records.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 2:26 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (BUFDRVR)
Date: 9/5/2004 11:52 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

ArtKramr wrote:

How come you didn't join the Marines and volunteer for the Pacific?


The Army Air Corps was a tougher outift that took higher losses.

When you joined this was not only uncertain, but being touted as highly
unlikely, so don't give us this line of crap about joining because you knew
where the toughest action was going to be. The USAAF may have taken more
caualties in gross numbers, but the USMC in the Pacific had a much higher
percentage rate. Do a google on Tarawa.


BUFDRVR


Get back to me after you have fought in a real war. You are all ****ed up.
The
Army AIr Corps had the highest percentage But you fought in neither the AAC
or
the Mairnes. so what the hell do you know about anything?

.
Arthur Kramer


You weren't in the AAC either, art. It went out of business in 1941. You were
in the USAAF.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: "Bob Coe"

snip

You signed-up to ride
around in an airplane at the governments expense, take the cash, and the
heated barracks, and lay around like a ****ing queen, while real men fought.

Bob, that was uncalled for. Whatever else Art is he did serve in real combat in
the air. It was nothing like the ground war I experienced in Viet Nam, but it
was war.

No need to stoop to his level.

Besides, not all AAF crews slept in barracks, many stayed in unheated tents.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 2:20 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (B2431)
Date: 9/5/2004 11:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 11:59 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Why did Bush join the National Guard instrae do the Army, Navy or Air
Force?
why?


Arthur Kramer

He DID go into the Air Force. The ANG is a component of the USAF.

Now why do you insist on posting off topic rants about a better man than
you?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



He pulled strings to avoid combat. He is not much of a man.


Arthur Kramer

You have yet to provide proof anyone pulled string in this matter. I can't
prove they didn't, but that doesn't mean they did.

What I can prove is you have repeatedly promised to stop initiating off topic
posts. You persist in doing so. This proves you are a liar which means anything
you say is suspect including your war stories.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 3:59 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/5/2004 12:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

He pulled strings to avoid combat.


What hard wvidence do you have of that?



He is not much of a man.


In your uninformed opinion.



He has the same combat record as you do. ZERO !




Arthur Kramer


Art, what on earth does that have to do with anything? Just because you went
along for a ride on combat missions and dropped a few bombs doesn't make your
opinions any more valid than anyone else's especially since you think your
combat is the most important historical event since Adam and Eve.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/5/2004 2:49 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: . net


"B2431" wrote in message
...

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 11:59 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Why did Bush join the National Guard instrae do the Army, Navy or
Air Force?
why?


He DID go into the Air Force. The ANG is a component of the USAF.


Yes, but Art asked about the National Guard.

Which is a component of the Army which Bush never clauims to have joined.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

From: Mike Dargan
Date: 9/5/2004 2:31 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id: rQJ_c.36777$3l3.28824@attbi_s03

ArtKramr wrote:

Why did Bush join the National Guard instrae do the Army, Navy or Air
Force?
why?

At that time, TANG was a safe place to baby sit the children of
privilege who were burdened by poor scores on military aptitude tests.
I don't fault Bush's parents for buying their kid's way into the
champaign squadron. It's important that the best and the brightest
conserve their genes for future generations.

Can you imagine the disaster if the shrub had been given hazardous duty
which caused him to be disabled or killed before having the chance to
breed and produce equally brilliant offspring? Where would we be
without Jenna and Barbara?

Cheers

--mike


Firstly, attacking family members is uncalled for and is not the act of a
gentleman. The daughters had nothing to do with Bush's military service.

Secondly, neither you nor anyone else can provide verifiable proof Bush did or
didn't buy his way into ANG.

Thirdly, Bush was a fully qualified F-102 in TANG at the time TANG had F-102
elements in Viet Nam.

In summary you are rude and uninformed.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (B2431)
Date: 9/5/2004 3:54 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 3:59 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: "Steven P. McNicoll"
Date: 9/5/2004 12:50 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id: . net


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...

He pulled strings to avoid combat.


What hard wvidence do you have of that?



He is not much of a man.


In your uninformed opinion.



He has the same combat record as you do. ZERO !




Arthur Kramer


Art, what on earth does that have to do with anything? Just because you went
along for a ride on combat missions and dropped a few bombs doesn't make your
opinions any more valid than anyone else's especially since you think your
combat is the most important historical event since Adam and Eve.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired


It makes my opinion far more valid than anyone who never flew a mission
including you.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From: "Kevin Brooks"
Date: 9/5/2004 3:18 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:


"George Z. Bush"

snip the usual george z manure

That's just for the record, of course.

Then your records are all screwed up.

Brooks


First thing you have to understand is george z is a manure salesman with a
mouthful of samples. The second thing is he was never in the military and has
never bothered to figure out how the military actually works.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (B2431)
Date: 9/5/2004 3:51 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 2:20 PM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Subject: Why did Bush join the national guard?
From: (B2431)
Date: 9/5/2004 11:53 AM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


From: (ArtKramr)
Date: 9/5/2004 11:59 AM Central Daylight Time
Message-id:

Why did Bush join the National Guard instrae do the Army, Navy or Air
Force?
why?


Arthur Kramer

He DID go into the Air Force. The ANG is a component of the USAF.

Now why do you insist on posting off topic rants about a better man than
you?

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired



He pulled strings to avoid combat. He is not much of a man.


Arthur Kramer

You have yet to provide proof anyone pulled string in this matter. I can't
prove they didn't, but that doesn't mean they did.

What I can prove is you have repeatedly promised to stop initiating off topic
posts. You persist in doing so. This proves you are a liar which means
anything
you say is suspect including your war stories.

Dan, U.S. Air Force, retired

My milirtary reicrd isa an ioenb book on a day to day basis. Yours doesn't
exist in any manner or form. So I would say it is your record that is very
suspicious. In fact I am getting to doubt you have any record at all Can you
match Kerry's record? .


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer