4130 - bad news...

wrote in message
...

Brazing high strength alloy steel components of automotive bodies is
STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.

A. By whom?
B. Where?
C. For what use?

Rich S.

On Wed, 12 May 2004 12:47:27 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

Brazing high strength alloy steel components of automotive bodies is
STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.

A. By whom?
B. Where?
C. For what use?

Rich S.

A - by the auto manufacturers, the autobody trade, and anyone alse
involved in the inspection/qualification of auto body repairs in
Canada and the USA.

B ANY structural body part. - which is generally where HSA steel is
used

C - for onhighway use.

wrote in message
...

Brazing high strength alloy steel components of automotive bodies is
STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.

A. By whom?

A - by the auto manufacturers, the autobody trade, and anyone alse
involved in the inspection/qualification of auto body repairs in
Canada and the USA.

B. Where?

B ANY structural body part. - which is generally where HSA steel is used

C. For what use?

C - for onhighway use.

A. They are not my King, nor my God and I care not what they may FORBID.

B. Weren't we talking about the use of this steel in experimental airplanes?
(Actually, by "where" I meant "where in the world is such brazing "STRICTLY
FORBIDDEN" - which you answered in "A".)

C. I assume you mean in production automobiles. Unless you can tell me what
law pertains to the brazing of "high strength alloy steel components of
automotive bodies", I'm afraid I can lend little credence to your statement.
I really don't give a rat's ass what the "auto manufacturers, the autobody
trade, and anyone alse involved in the inspection/qualification of auto body
repairs in Canada and the USA." have proclaimed.

Come to think of it, I have never heard of anyone involved in the
inspection/qualification of auto body repairs. Is there such a governmental
body in Canada?

Rich S.

Rich S. wrote:

Come to think of it, I have never heard of anyone involved in the
inspection/qualification of auto body repairs.

Next time you whip out the Bondo(tm) watch out for the
guys in suits and sunglesses coming up your driveway.

Dave 'we're here to help' Hyde

"Dave Hyde" wrote in message
...
Rich S. wrote:

Come to think of it, I have never heard of anyone involved in the
inspection/qualification of auto body repairs.

Next time you whip out the Bondo(tm) watch out for the
guys in suits and sunglesses coming up your driveway.

Dave 'we're here to help' Hyde


The main reason I quit the Fire Marshal business.

Rich "I'm from the gov. . ." S.

What a crock of ****!




I know most auto manufactures prohibit gas welding the stuff. MIG or
TIG is OK and brass should not be a problem as long as the temp stays
low enough. Some of the HSLA's apparantly are highly corrosion
resistant as well.

Brazing high strength alloy steel components of automotive bodies is
STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. Mig and tig are acceptable if done to
specifications - spot welding is most common.




Simply because the slopeheads haven't built a robot to do it for them yet!

Q' What part of an aircraft would you want to use 4130 sheet steel for?


Ps I'd love to see a production car that has any TIG welding as part of
its constuction.

Cam.................

On Thu, 13 May 2004 15:08:06 -0700, "Rich S."
wrote:

wrote in message
.. .

Brazing high strength alloy steel components of automotive bodies is
STRICTLY FORBIDDEN.

A. By whom?

A - by the auto manufacturers, the autobody trade, and anyone alse
involved in the inspection/qualification of auto body repairs in
Canada and the USA.

B. Where?

B ANY structural body part. - which is generally where HSA steel is used

C. For what use?

C - for onhighway use.

A. They are not my King, nor my God and I care not what they may FORBID.

B. Weren't we talking about the use of this steel in experimental airplanes?
(Actually, by "where" I meant "where in the world is such brazing "STRICTLY
FORBIDDEN" - which you answered in "A".)

C. I assume you mean in production automobiles. Unless you can tell me what
law pertains to the brazing of "high strength alloy steel components of
automotive bodies", I'm afraid I can lend little credence to your statement.
I really don't give a rat's ass what the "auto manufacturers, the autobody
trade, and anyone alse involved in the inspection/qualification of auto body
repairs in Canada and the USA." have proclaimed.


You may not give a rat's ass, but the high strength alloy steel sure
does. It is a HEAT TREATED steel, and it looses a very large
percentage of it's strength when heated to red hot - which is a
definite requirement for brazing.

Come to think of it, I have never heard of anyone involved in the
inspection/qualification of auto body repairs. Is there such a governmental
body in Canada?


Keep the useless government out of it.
Trade groups like the SCRS, ASTM, APMA, ASE.AAC, ABPA, ASBE, and ACA,
along with the NHTSA all have something to say about it.

Specifically, look at:
http://www.autosteel.org/pdfs/ahss_r...ase2_study.pdf

This is LOW ALLOY steel - as compared to 4130,
I would not want to see it used, particularly by amatures, in
construction of aircraft with welding, or worse yet, brazing, involved
in the construction.
Rich S.

Cam wrote:

Q' What part of an aircraft would you want to use 4130 sheet steel for?


The list is rather long, but in the Delta, there are a lot of attachment
tabs, gussets, and that sort of thing.

--
http://www.ernest.isa-geek.org/
"Ignorance is mankinds normal state,
alleviated by information and experience."
Veeduber

On Sat, 15 May 2004 01:45:03 +1200, "Cam" wrote:

What a crock of ****!




I know most auto manufactures prohibit gas welding the stuff. MIG or
TIG is OK and brass should not be a problem as long as the temp stays
low enough. Some of the HSLA's apparantly are highly corrosion
resistant as well.

Brazing high strength alloy steel components of automotive bodies is
STRICTLY FORBIDDEN. Mig and tig are acceptable if done to
specifications - spot welding is most common.




Simply because the slopeheads haven't built a robot to do it for them yet!

Q' What part of an aircraft would you want to use 4130 sheet steel for?


Ps I'd love to see a production car that has any TIG welding as part of
its constuction.

Cam.................

By the same token, any torch brazed components, or any O/A welded?

MIG and spot welding are almost exclusively used in automotive
manufacturing, under VERY strictly controlled process. The weld
spacings, weld heat, and weld positions are all ENGINEERED, and no
deviations are permitted.
This is to make sure the body is SAFE, and failure in case of
collision damage etc is predictable.

4140 plate is used for gussets, finger straps, brackets, control
bellcranks, landing gear fittings, float fittings, strut attatchments,
spar mounting points, flap and aelerin controls, to mention a few.
Something like 6 square feet overall in a Pegazair.

Earnest,

For what it's worth, I just got back from day 1 at SWRFI and
there IS a Dyke on display!

I have to admit, it is a cool plane.
Very different.

But it took 26 years to build???

(Somebody was goofing off!)


Richard