Pitch vs. trim in flight phases

Let's not overlook, as Dudley has mentioned, how the pressures needed
on the yoke, and yoke deflections, change with airspeed. These are the
things pilots know, and something the computer based sims I have flown
do not replicate. It is anothr sensation light airplane pilots use
automatically, and not available on most sims.

One needs experience in both realms to be able to compare them. It's a
given many pilots here have flown(?) sims so their observations have
some validity. Maybe the non pilots got wise staying in a Holiday Inn
Express last night.

Dudley Henriques wrote:

I don't know how that compares to the Saitek Aviator which is what I
use, but I'm thinking of removing the springs and replacing them with
stiffer ones to make it a bit more realistic.


Ah yes......but at what airspeed? (slugs dynamic pressure vs unboosted
control surfaces :-))

Ooh. Good point. I wonder if a series of small electric motors could
be used to spool up bungee tension corresponding to appropriate
pressures. Not sure how the big sims do it.




-c

gatt wrote:
Dudley Henriques wrote:

I don't know how that compares to the Saitek Aviator which is what I
use, but I'm thinking of removing the springs and replacing them with
stiffer ones to make it a bit more realistic.


Ah yes......but at what airspeed? (slugs dynamic pressure vs unboosted
control surfaces :-))

Ooh. Good point. I wonder if a series of small electric motors could
be used to spool up bungee tension corresponding to appropriate
pressures. Not sure how the big sims do it.




-c

Not sure myself. It would have to be a complicated program. Even the
control surface area is a factor, and each aircraft would be affected
differently.

--
Dudley Henriques

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
...
On May 16, 10:32 am, Mxsmanic wrote:
Dudley Henriques writes:
You adjust pitch and hold that pitch, then trim. The general "rule" is
nose attitude, adjust power, trim the airplane.

OK, I will try that.

I'm not sure how you can without a force feedback joy stick. You use
the trim to remove pressure from the yoke.

As you surmise, the "trim" doesn't work like real life when you are using a
spring loaded joystick.

Instead of changing stick forces, the "trim" adds (up or down) pitch - so
you have to move the stick as you change the trim to maintain the same
attitude. In the end, you can fly at "zero stick force" by using "trim", but
the way it works and feels is way different (based on my experience with
both).

--
Geoff
The Sea Hawk at Wow Way d0t Com
remove spaces and make the obvious substitutions to reply by mail
When immigration is outlawed, only outlaws will immigrate.

Gatt,

The Airplane Flying Handbook, FAA-H-8083-3A, states:


Ah, another free source our local hotshot doesn't even bother to read.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

gatt wrote:
/snip/ Electronic trim switches mounted to the yoke are a
bad habit waiting to happen; they're disabled in a lot of training
aircraft. /snip

Gatt, you owe me a new keyboard, I just spewed my coffee all over mine!
The plethora of inop electric trim swithces in GA is due to them being
broken, and the ownerws too cheap to have them fixed.

Happy Flying!
Scott Skylane

Steve Foley writes:

I have flown many different aircraft, and have never had to ask someone how
to trim the plane.

Nothing obliged me to ask. I could have simply used trial and error.

If you don't have to ask someone how to trim a real plane, then it follows
that no training is required to do so, in which case a pilot has no advantage
over a non-pilot when it comes to trim, since everyone does it instinctively,
without having to ask anyone anything.

BDS writes:

That's the difference, and it is a big difference.

No, it's not.

In an airplane you might be holding forward pressure on the yoke at say 2
lbs to hold a particular attitude. As you start rolling in forward trim the
force required to hold the yoke in the position it is currently being held
diminishes until it is gone altogether. The yoke never moves but the force
required to hold it where it is diminishes to zero.

In your sim what happens is that as you roll in forward trim you have to
move the yoke back to compensate which results in less spring pressure based
on the new position of the yoke - the previously held desired attitude now
occurs with the yoke in a different position. This is not at all how it
works in an airplane, and not at all how it feels to the pilot.

You're exaggerating a difference that is insignificant.

In addition, in my experience the springs in these toy yokes and joysticks
do not feel at all like normal control pressures in an airplane - the "feel"
is all wrong and the force curves are not the same.

They don't feel the same from one airplane to the next, either. So what?

Before I drove a car, I trained on a simulator that had no motion. When I
switched to the real thing, I didn't notice any significant difference, except
that the car actually moved.

Tina writes:

Let's not overlook, as Dudley has mentioned, how the pressures needed
on the yoke, and yoke deflections, change with airspeed. These are the
things pilots know, and something the computer based sims I have flown
do not replicate. It is anothr sensation light airplane pilots use
automatically, and not available on most sims.

It seems almost self-evident. Why make such a big deal of it?

One needs experience in both realms to be able to compare them. It's a
given many pilots here have flown(?) sims so their observations have
some validity.

From the way some of them talk, it doesn't sound like they've done any recent
or serious simming.

Mxsmanic wrote in
:

Steve Foley writes:

I have flown many different aircraft, and have never had to ask
someone how to trim the plane.

Nothing obliged me to ask. I could have simply used trial and error.

If you don't have to ask someone how to trim a real plane, then it
follows that no training is required to do so, in which case a pilot
has no advantage over a non-pilot when it comes to trim, since
everyone does it instinctively, without having to ask anyone anything.


YOU ARE A ****ING MORON! YOU DIDN'T UNDERSTAND A WORD YOU READ!

Once you learn how to trim an airplane, it becomes very easy to adapt to
the differences. A concept you are incapable of understanding. You have
got to learn to trim first, though. And you will never learn to trim a
real airplane with MSFS.

GO STICK YOUR HEAD BACK UP YOUR ASS. IT'S THE ONLY USEFULL THING YOU'LL
EVER DO IN YOU LIFE.