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IDAHO FATALITY
I heard there was a stall spin on base to final fatality at the recent
Idhao flying get-together. Anyone got any specifics? Tough summer for gliding! |
#2
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IDAHO FATALITY
On Aug 20, 8:41*am, Bob wrote:
I heard there was a stall spin on base to final fatality at the recent Idhao flying get-together. *Anyone got any specifics? *Tough summer for gliding! BG-12b in FAA Friday Preliminary reports. |
#3
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IDAHO FATALITY
On Aug 20, 10:03*am, Frank Whiteley wrote:
On Aug 20, 8:41*am, Bob wrote: I heard there was a stall spin on base to final fatality at the recent Idhao flying get-together. *Anyone got any specifics? *Tough summer for gliding! BG-12b in FAA Friday Preliminary reports. http://www.faa.gov/data_research/acc...a/B_0819_N.txt While looking for it, I saw this one http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...15X11650&key=1 The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad John Cochrane |
#4
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IDAHO FATALITY
On 8/20/11 2:00 PM, John Cochrane wrote:
On Aug 20, 10:03 am, Frank wrote: On Aug 20, 8:41 am, wrote: I heard there was a stall spin on base to final fatality at the recent Idhao flying get-together. Anyone got any specifics? Tough summer for gliding! BG-12b in FAA Friday Preliminary reports. http://www.faa.gov/data_research/acc...a/B_0819_N.txt While looking for it, I saw this one http://www.ntsb.gov/aviationquery/br...15X11650&key=1 The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad John Cochrane Ah I assume then you missed the unending thread from hell here about the rudder waggle signal that was triggered by that accident. Darryl |
#5
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Quote:
IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 559Y Make/Model: EXP Description: EXP- BRIEGLEB BG-12B GLIDER Date: 08/18/2011 Time: 2243 Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Substantial LOCATION City: MOORE State: ID Country: US DESCRIPTION A GLIDER, AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, THE 1-PERSON ONBOARD FATALLY INJURED, MOORE, ID INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1 # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: 182253Z 21014G22KT10SM CLR 30/M01 A3003 OTHER DATA Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER FAA FSDO: BOISE, ID (NM11) Entry date: 08/19/2011 Having read the final report on an accident where I fly I no longer have much faith in the outcome of these investigations. Walt |
#6
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IDAHO FATALITY
The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad John Cochrane If radios were required by that club or FBO and a com-check had been performed before takeoff, the tragic sequence of events would have been stopped with a simple, "Close your spoilers" call from the tow pilot. All the clubs & FBO's in region 11 have got the word, but it took 4 preventable fatalities to do it. When is the SSA going to get the word? JJ Sinclair |
#7
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IDAHO FATALITY
On 8/20/2011 7:02 PM, Walt Connelly wrote:
Frank Whiteley;781006 Wrote: On Aug 20, 8:41*am, Bob wrote:- I heard there was a stall spin on base to final fatality at the recent Idhao flying get-together. *Anyone got any specifics? *Tough summer for gliding!- BG-12b in FAA Friday Preliminary reports. IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 559Y Make/Model: EXP Description: EXP- BRIEGLEB BG-12B GLIDER Date: 08/18/2011 Time: 2243 Event Type: Accident Highest Injury: Fatal Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Substantial LOCATION City: MOORE State: ID Country: US DESCRIPTION A GLIDER, AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, THE 1-PERSON ONBOARD FATALLY INJURED, MOORE, ID INJURY DATA Total Fatal: 1 # Crew: 1 Fat: 1 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Pass: 0 Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: # Grnd: Fat: 0 Ser: 0 Min: 0 Unk: WEATHER: 182253Z 21014G22KT10SM CLR 30/M01 A3003 OTHER DATA Activity: Unknown Phase: Unknown Operation: OTHER FAA FSDO: BOISE, ID (NM11) Entry date: 08/19/2011 Having read the final report on an accident where I fly I no longer have much faith in the outcome of these investigations. Nor - I've little doubt - do most interested readers of the NTSB database. My working conclusion is, historically the vast majority of NTSB glider investigations state the obvious, while lacking any ability to place the obvious into any sensible context. Donning my Great Karnak hat, this fatality's Probable Cause will likely read: Failure to maintain airspeed and control for unknown reasons. And at that, my supposition may well err on the wide of 'too much context'...time will tell. However, savvy NTSB-database-reading glider pilots can still make their own inferential, context-based conclusions from NTSB data. In fact, they *should* do so, if they're interested in maximizing their chances of not eventually becoming a read-about incident or accident in the database. Bob W. |
#8
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IDAHO FATALITY
On Aug 21, 6:23*am, BobW wrote:
On 8/20/2011 7:02 PM, Walt Connelly wrote: Frank Whiteley;781006 Wrote: On Aug 20, 8:41*am, Bob wrote:- I heard there was a stall spin on base to final fatality at the recent Idhao flying get-together. *Anyone got any specifics? *Tough summer for gliding!- BG-12b in FAA Friday Preliminary reports. IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 559Y * * * *Make/Model: EXP * * * Description: EXP- BRIEGLEB BG-12B GLIDER Date: 08/18/2011 * * Time: 2243 Event Type: Accident * Highest Injury: Fatal * * Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Substantial LOCATION City: MOORE * State: ID * Country: US DESCRIPTION A GLIDER, AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, THE 1-PERSON ONBOARD FATALLY INJURED, MOORE, ID INJURY DATA * * *Total Fatal: * 1 # Crew: * 1 * * Fat: * 1 * * Ser: * 0 * * Min: * 0 Unk: # Pass: * 0 * * Fat: * 0 * * Ser: * 0 * * Min: * 0 Unk: # Grnd: * * * * Fat: * 0 * * Ser: * 0 * * Min: * 0 Unk: WEATHER: 182253Z 21014G22KT10SM CLR 30/M01 A3003 OTHER DATA Activity: Unknown * * *Phase: Unknown * * *Operation: OTHER FAA FSDO: BOISE, ID *(NM11) * * * * * * * * * * Entry date: 08/19/2011 Having read the final report on an accident where I fly I no longer have much faith in the outcome of these investigations. Nor - I've little doubt - do most interested readers of the NTSB database.. My working conclusion is, historically the vast majority of NTSB glider investigations state the obvious, while lacking any ability to place the obvious into any sensible context. Donning my Great Karnak hat, this fatality's Probable Cause will likely read: Failure to maintain airspeed and control for unknown reasons. And at that, my supposition may well err on the wide of 'too much context'...time will tell. However, savvy NTSB-database-reading glider pilots can still make their own inferential, context-based conclusions from NTSB data. In fact, they *should* do so, if they're interested in maximizing their chances of not eventually becoming a read-about incident or accident in the database. Bob W. Precisely, and this is why we should encourage speculation rather than 'wait for the NTSB report'. And I'll start by saying that from a second hand report this was a spin of the top of a (not so) high speed pass. I for one will think twice before attempting a high speed low pass again especially if i am not 100% sure I'll be able to build enough speed. This had been another terrible year for glider accidents and it is tragic to loose so many but we should all try to learn as much as possible from every accident to increase our safety. Ramy |
#9
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IDAHO FATALITY
On Aug 21, 7:54*am, Ramy wrote:
On Aug 21, 6:23*am, BobW wrote: On 8/20/2011 7:02 PM, Walt Connelly wrote: Frank Whiteley;781006 Wrote: On Aug 20, 8:41*am, Bob wrote:- I heard there was a stall spin on base to final fatality at the recent Idhao flying get-together. *Anyone got any specifics? *Tough summer for gliding!- BG-12b in FAA Friday Preliminary reports. IDENTIFICATION Regis#: 559Y * * * *Make/Model: EXP * * * Description: EXP- BRIEGLEB BG-12B GLIDER Date: 08/18/2011 * * Time: 2243 Event Type: Accident * Highest Injury: Fatal * * Mid Air: N Missing: N Damage: Substantial LOCATION City: MOORE * State: ID * Country: US DESCRIPTION A GLIDER, AIRCRAFT CRASHED UNDER UNKNOWN CIRCUMSTANCES, THE 1-PERSON ONBOARD FATALLY INJURED, MOORE, ID INJURY DATA * * *Total Fatal: * 1 # Crew: * 1 * * Fat: * 1 * * Ser: * 0 * * Min: * 0 Unk: # Pass: * 0 * * Fat: * 0 * * Ser: * 0 * * Min: * 0 Unk: # Grnd: * * * * Fat: * 0 * * Ser: * 0 * * Min: * 0 Unk: WEATHER: 182253Z 21014G22KT10SM CLR 30/M01 A3003 OTHER DATA Activity: Unknown * * *Phase: Unknown * * *Operation: OTHER FAA FSDO: BOISE, ID *(NM11) * * * * * * * * * * Entry date: 08/19/2011 Having read the final report on an accident where I fly I no longer have much faith in the outcome of these investigations. Nor - I've little doubt - do most interested readers of the NTSB database. My working conclusion is, historically the vast majority of NTSB glider investigations state the obvious, while lacking any ability to place the obvious into any sensible context. Donning my Great Karnak hat, this fatality's Probable Cause will likely read: Failure to maintain airspeed and control for unknown reasons. And at that, my supposition may well err on the wide of 'too much context'...time will tell. However, savvy NTSB-database-reading glider pilots can still make their own inferential, context-based conclusions from NTSB data. In fact, they *should* do so, if they're interested in maximizing their chances of not eventually becoming a read-about incident or accident in the database. Bob W. Precisely, and this is why we should encourage speculation rather than 'wait for the NTSB report'. And I'll start by saying that from a second hand report this was a spin of the top of a (not so) high speed pass. I for one will think twice before attempting a high speed low pass again especially if i am not 100% sure I'll be able to build enough speed. This had been another terrible year for glider accidents and it is tragic to loose so many but we should all try to learn as much as possible from every accident to increase our safety. Ramy- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I was there and Ramy is right. Why he had done the pass is the big mystery. He may have ben low coming in and didn't want to do a downwind landing in 10-12k winds. We may never know, but it is a tragedy, and my or may not have been preventable. Let's fly safe out there. BTW, I completely agree with using the RADIO to convey information vs. the old-fashioned and ambigous waggle signals, and won't fly at an airport that doesn't have radios in the tow planes. Wayne |
#10
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IDAHO FATALITY
On Aug 21, 6:07*am, JJ Sinclair wrote:
The rudder waggle does not mean "release now." How terribly sad John Cochrane If radios were required by that club or FBO and a com-check had been performed before takeoff, the tragic sequence of events would have been stopped with a simple, "Close your spoilers" call from the tow pilot. All the clubs & FBO's in region 11 have got the word, but it took 4 preventable fatalities to do it. When is the SSA going to get the word? JJ Sinclair I for one know and understand the SSA signals on tow. However one must be a realist and accept the fact of human nature as such, that not everyone else does or maybe remembers. Therefore it would be wise to continue using the signals on tow only as an alternate means of communication to radio. 6PK |
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