Student night solo?

My FBO didn't allow solo night flight so I wasn't signed off for it.
IMHO, a good thing.


--
Jack Allison
PP-ASEL, IA Student

"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth
with your eyes turned skyward, for there you have been, and there
you will always long to return"
- Leonardo Da Vinci

(Remove the obvious from address to reply via e-mail)

In rec.aviation.student Peter MacPherson wrote:
I'm a CFI and was curious how many CFI's sign their students off for
flying solo at night. I personally don't feel comfortable doing it.

Thanks,
Pete

Uncomfortable, then don't sign them off! Most students truly do not
have enough night experience to be flying solo at night. I think the
good judgement kicks in at about 10 hours of night time.

Conversely, about 1/2 my private training time was night, so I got
signed off for solo night. :-) The DPE re-checked the numbers on my
8710, and they agreed with my logbook, and I have been night current
and comfortable at night ever since (1975).

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 218 Young Eagles!

In rec.aviation.student Peter MacPherson wrote:
I'm a CFI and was curious how many CFI's sign their students off for
flying solo at night. I personally don't feel comfortable doing it.

Thanks,
Pete

Uncomfortable, then don't sign them off! Most students truly do not
have enough night experience to be flying solo at night. I think the
good judgement kicks in at about 10 hours of night time.

Conversely, about 1/2 my private training time was night, so I got
signed off for solo night. :-) The DPE re-checked the numbers on my
8710, and they agreed with my logbook, and I have been night current
and comfortable at night ever since (1975).

Best regards,

Jer/ "Flight instruction and mountain flying are my vocation!" Eberhard

--
Jer/ (Slash) Eberhard, Mountain Flying Aviation, LTD, Ft Collins, CO
CELL 970 231-6325 EMAIL jer'at'frii.com WEB http://users.frii.com/jer/
C-206 N9513G, CFII Airplane&Glider, FAA-DEN Aviation Safety Counselor
CAP-CO Mission&Aircraft CheckPilot, BM218 HAM N0FZD, 218 Young Eagles!

Dave S wrote
My answer as a non-CFI is.. I would expect the number of CFI's who
actually endorse a student for night solo to be VERY low.. simply as a
result of the environment in which we instruct and train.

My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?

My policy is that the student gets a night solo endorsement when he
completes his night and instrument training. If I don't feel like he
can fly at night and maintain an adequate level of safety and
proficiency, then we do more than the mandated 3 hour minimum (this
has happened). If he doesn't like it, he can find another instructor
(this has not).

Michael

Dave S wrote
My answer as a non-CFI is.. I would expect the number of CFI's who
actually endorse a student for night solo to be VERY low.. simply as a
result of the environment in which we instruct and train.

My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?

My policy is that the student gets a night solo endorsement when he
completes his night and instrument training. If I don't feel like he
can fly at night and maintain an adequate level of safety and
proficiency, then we do more than the mandated 3 hour minimum (this
has happened). If he doesn't like it, he can find another instructor
(this has not).

Michael

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?

The student will have passenger carrying privileges when he passes the
checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel comfortable having him fly with
passengers on your ticket, how can you send him to the checkride?

Seriously...the above analogy is only a little facetious. The truth is
that, once your student has passed his checkride, he will be legal to do a
whole slew of things never covered in primary training. The only
alternative to that situation is to make the primary training take orders of
magnitude longer than it does now.

Some things can be explored by the pilot on his own, gradually expanding his
envelope of flight skills, others really will require additional training
time with a qualified instructor before the student ought to try them. But
in all cases, they are examples of things that the student is not going to
be approved to do by his instructor before the checkride, nor should he be,
even though the FAA will consider him legal to attempt after the checkride.

I think it's great that you are able to train your students to solo
proficiency in night flight during the course of the student's training (you
don't say how often you are able to do this in the minimum three hours), but
the argument "he'll be able to do it after the checkride, so why not
before?" is just plain silly. It carries no logical weight whatsoever.

Pete

"Michael" wrote in message
om...
My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?

The student will have passenger carrying privileges when he passes the
checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel comfortable having him fly with
passengers on your ticket, how can you send him to the checkride?

Seriously...the above analogy is only a little facetious. The truth is
that, once your student has passed his checkride, he will be legal to do a
whole slew of things never covered in primary training. The only
alternative to that situation is to make the primary training take orders of
magnitude longer than it does now.

Some things can be explored by the pilot on his own, gradually expanding his
envelope of flight skills, others really will require additional training
time with a qualified instructor before the student ought to try them. But
in all cases, they are examples of things that the student is not going to
be approved to do by his instructor before the checkride, nor should he be,
even though the FAA will consider him legal to attempt after the checkride.

I think it's great that you are able to train your students to solo
proficiency in night flight during the course of the student's training (you
don't say how often you are able to do this in the minimum three hours), but
the argument "he'll be able to do it after the checkride, so why not
before?" is just plain silly. It carries no logical weight whatsoever.

Pete

One of the first things I did after getting my private ticket was
schedule a couple of flights with my CFI at night to get that level of
comfort I wanted before I attempted it all on my own or with passengers.

Sort of made pale by the stuff I did training for my instrument ticket,
partial panel, at night with simulated electrical failure.. that's about
as bad as it gets, the fact that I didn't just throw up my arms in
despair was a testament to the training I had recieved prior.

Robert

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?


The student will have passenger carrying privileges when he passes the
checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel comfortable having him fly with
passengers on your ticket, how can you send him to the checkride?

Seriously...the above analogy is only a little facetious. The truth is
that, once your student has passed his checkride, he will be legal to do a
whole slew of things never covered in primary training. The only
alternative to that situation is to make the primary training take orders of
magnitude longer than it does now.

Some things can be explored by the pilot on his own, gradually expanding his
envelope of flight skills, others really will require additional training
time with a qualified instructor before the student ought to try them. But
in all cases, they are examples of things that the student is not going to
be approved to do by his instructor before the checkride, nor should he be,
even though the FAA will consider him legal to attempt after the checkride.

I think it's great that you are able to train your students to solo
proficiency in night flight during the course of the student's training (you
don't say how often you are able to do this in the minimum three hours), but
the argument "he'll be able to do it after the checkride, so why not
before?" is just plain silly. It carries no logical weight whatsoever.

Pete

One of the first things I did after getting my private ticket was
schedule a couple of flights with my CFI at night to get that level of
comfort I wanted before I attempted it all on my own or with passengers.

Sort of made pale by the stuff I did training for my instrument ticket,
partial panel, at night with simulated electrical failure.. that's about
as bad as it gets, the fact that I didn't just throw up my arms in
despair was a testament to the training I had recieved prior.

Robert

Peter Duniho wrote:

"Michael" wrote in message
om...

My answer as a CFI is - if not now, when? The student will have night
privileges when he passes the checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel
comfortable having him fly solo at night on your ticket, how can you
send him to the checkride?


The student will have passenger carrying privileges when he passes the
checkride. Therefore, if you don't feel comfortable having him fly with
passengers on your ticket, how can you send him to the checkride?

Seriously...the above analogy is only a little facetious. The truth is
that, once your student has passed his checkride, he will be legal to do a
whole slew of things never covered in primary training. The only
alternative to that situation is to make the primary training take orders of
magnitude longer than it does now.

Some things can be explored by the pilot on his own, gradually expanding his
envelope of flight skills, others really will require additional training
time with a qualified instructor before the student ought to try them. But
in all cases, they are examples of things that the student is not going to
be approved to do by his instructor before the checkride, nor should he be,
even though the FAA will consider him legal to attempt after the checkride.

I think it's great that you are able to train your students to solo
proficiency in night flight during the course of the student's training (you
don't say how often you are able to do this in the minimum three hours), but
the argument "he'll be able to do it after the checkride, so why not
before?" is just plain silly. It carries no logical weight whatsoever.

Pete

"Peter MacPherson" wrote in message news:9kQad.459163$8_6.292132@attbi_s04...
I'm a CFI and was curious how many CFI's sign their students off for
flying solo at night. I personally don't feel comfortable doing it.

Thanks,
Pete

Back when I was a student I remember several of my cross countries
being done at night (in a tailwheel with no landing light no less).
However, the flight school I work with now prohibits it. I would say
the night training we give toward the private is pretty minimum
(especially for the student that has over a year between checkride and
night flying). I would expect students to come back after their
private and ask for more night training before renting at night.

-Robert, CFI