Claus-Dieter Zink takes measures against Lowlands Cup team

A valuable lesson. Learn from it..!

I wouldn't call you a thief, nor any other kind of
criminal. I'd just say you were a bit daft, beleiving
that an attempt to contact CDZ gave you the right to
assume it would be OK.

It would have only been OK with his writen permission
and I'm sure CDZ has good reasons for not replying,
however a simple 'no' would have saved a whole bunch
of grief.

Good luck.

Al

At 11:36 30 December 2005, Ronald Termaat wrote:
Some clarification.

Yes, we are wrong because we used a picture without
checking the
source/copyright. We just found it with Google and
it was not coming
from the site of CDZ. Up till now we did not even found
the picture
back on his website.

But the moment we found out that it was possibly a
picture of CDZ we
tried to contact him and ask for permission and support.
No reply.
A mail discussion started with somebody who claimed
to talk in the name
of CDZ (even wrote: CDZ is standing right next to me
at the moment) who
wrote (after some unpleasant mails), it is ok. During
this conversation
we again tried to contact CDZ (email and phone) but
no response.
Because the Lowlandscup is for fun and promotion of
gliding and
strictly non profit we had no reason to believe that
it would hurt CDZ,
or his business and that of course he would not have
any objection in
using the picture. Boy, we were wrong!
We received a letter from his lawyer demanding to pay
an amount of 1400
Euros for copyright infringement. Again we tried to
reach Mr. Zink
(email, phone and 3 different faxnumbers) trying to
settle this in a
mature way. The only response we received from him,
via the lawyer, was
that we committed a crime and he doesn't want to deal
with thieves.

The only option available to us was seek assistance
in the
glidingcommunity. We are spending a lot of time making
the Lowlandscup
work, and we get no money for it at all. We do not
have the funds to
pay for the claim of CDZ.

The picture we used is already removed and replaced
by a picture
offered by the German C-kader (German Juniors team).

I'm flying for more than 25 years, have participated
in everything from
Juniors up till Worldchampionships. It was always a
pleasure to meet
new people from all over the world, and we have made
many new friends.
All these people shared the joy of soaring.
The words from the website of CDZ: 'Mit Freundlichem
Fliegergruss'
(with friendly soaring greetings) seems to me not very
well chosen. We
tried to correct our mistake, mr Zink only contacted
his lawyer and
never contacted us.

Sorry Mr. Zink, this is not how we handle with issues
in the
glidercommunity!
And I also rather not be called a thief anymore...

Ronald Termaat
XT

Hi All,

It was not the attempt to contact CDZ, it was the statement from the
person who spoke in the name of CDZ saying it was ok. To be sure we
also copied CDZ in this mailconversation. Now the claim from the lawyer
is that he was not an official spokesperson.

A simple NO (or maybe even 'no thanks') would have been enough. We did
something for the glidingcommunity and made a mistake by using a small
picture found on the Internet (not on cdz site). Not any way of
communication was possible with Mr Zink to settle this. Only paying
1400 Euro's. Not really a nice way of settling an issue.

Indeed two lessons learned:
1. Always check what you use.
2. All people in the gliding community are friendly, but some are more
friendly than others (original similar statements from G.Orwell)

Well I'm glad I didn't decide to buy one of his calenders!


I can't really see what the guys problem is - you weren't
making any money out of it-you were trying to do something
to help promote gliding - surely if it caused him that
much offence he could have contacted you to remove
the item - strikes me Mr Zink is not much of a gentleman
- I think this action will harm him and his business
more than you.

Mr. Zink is at present heading a very successfull campaign against the
new JAR regulations in Germany see http://jar-contra.de

As far as his Copyright is concerned i am not sure he followed proper
procedures
1. Provide proof that it is his picture and that it is copyrighted
2. Ask for it to be removed immediatly
3. Find where else his picture was used on the net and ask them to
remove it.
4. If no action is taken proceed through legal channels.

Bruno

Mr. Zink is at present heading a very successfull campaign against the
new JAR regulations in Germany see http://jar-contra.de

As far as his Copyright is concerned i am not sure he followed proper
procedures
1. Provide proof that it is his picture and that it is copyrighted
2. Ask for it to be removed immediatly
3. Find where else his picture was used on the net and ask them to
remove it.
4. If no action is taken proceed through legal channels.

Bruno

Ronald Termaat wrote:
Hi All,

It was not the attempt to contact CDZ, it was the statement from the
person who spoke in the name of CDZ saying it was ok. To be sure we
also copied CDZ in this mailconversation. Now the claim from the lawyer
is that he was not an official spokesperson.

A simple NO (or maybe even 'no thanks') would have been enough. We did
something for the glidingcommunity and made a mistake by using a small
picture found on the Internet (not on cdz site). Not any way of
communication was possible with Mr Zink to settle this. Only paying
1400 Euro's. Not really a nice way of settling an issue.

Indeed two lessons learned:
1. Always check what you use.
2. All people in the gliding community are friendly, but some are more
friendly than others (original similar statements from G.Orwell)


Perhaps you are still not dealing with an "official spokesman", despite
the claim the letter is from Mr. Zink's lawyer. Maybe Mr. Zink is not
and has not ever been involved in the situation, because his employees
(?) are not informing him.


--
Change "netto" to "net" to email me directly

Eric Greenwell
Washington State
USA

Hi Ronald

I dont have millions of pictures but what ever I have
are freely available to any one who e mails me, including
CDZ.

If you do make some money from my pictures then a donation
to your natioanl team (and the proof) is all I ask.

Any one who is interested please e mail me direct

Regards

Ged

ps this could be a way of helping to fund your national
team
if others take it on board.

Their must be millions of private pictures out there
of good quality which could earn a penny or two for
the national team of the owners?


14:00 30 December 2005, Ronald Termaat wrote:
Hi All,

It was not the attempt to contact CDZ, it was the statement
from the
person who spoke in the name of CDZ saying it was ok.
To be sure we
also copied CDZ in this mailconversation. Now the claim
from the lawyer
is that he was not an official spokesperson.

A simple NO (or maybe even 'no thanks') would have
been enough. We did
something for the glidingcommunity and made a mistake
by using a small
picture found on the Internet (not on cdz site). Not
any way of
communication was possible with Mr Zink to settle this.
Only paying
1400 Euro's. Not really a nice way of settling an issue.

Indeed two lessons learned:
1. Always check what you use.
2. All people in the gliding community are friendly,
but some are more
friendly than others (original similar statements from
G.Orwell)

Hi Ronald

I dont have millions of pictures but what ever I have
are freely available to any one who e mails me, including
CDZ.

If you do make some money from my pictures then a donation
to your natioanl team (and the proof) is all I ask.

Any one who is interested please e mail me direct

Regards

Ged

ps this could be a way of helping to fund your national
team
if others take it on board.

Their must be millions of private pictures out there
of good quality which could earn a penny or two for
the national team of the owners?


14:00 30 December 2005, Ronald Termaat wrote:
Hi All,

It was not the attempt to contact CDZ, it was the statement
from the
person who spoke in the name of CDZ saying it was ok.
To be sure we
also copied CDZ in this mailconversation. Now the claim
from the lawyer
is that he was not an official spokesperson.

A simple NO (or maybe even 'no thanks') would have
been enough. We did
something for the glidingcommunity and made a mistake
by using a small
picture found on the Internet (not on cdz site). Not
any way of
communication was possible with Mr Zink to settle this.
Only paying
1400 Euro's. Not really a nice way of settling an issue.

Indeed two lessons learned:
1. Always check what you use.
2. All people in the gliding community are friendly,
but some are more
friendly than others (original similar statements from
G.Orwell)

I contacted Mr Zink to assist with the cause, and his reply reveals him
to be a quite reasonable man that is not doing this out of spite.

He simply reacted as any reasonable person would that is trying to
protect their lively hood.

He would probably have forgiven the infringement, but due to the fact
that there are legal fees that he has incurred to investigate the
matter puts him at a loss for this infringement, which would not be
fair to him at all.

I think it is only right that he be reimbursed for his incurred costs
due to some wrong performed by others....he should not be made to pay
the price for anothers wrong.

Everyone knows that copyright infringement occurs when the owner does
not approve the publication of something they do as a living....it is
very clear!

You should have waited for approval, and assumed it not approved until
he has emailed you to confirm it.

How would you like it if someone stole things that you use to earn your
livelyhood and gave it out for free?

Im sorry but I believe you have made a mistake and need to be
responsible for your actions, even though it was not intentional and
pay the price.

He is a reasonable man and would likely deal with you directly if you
are honest and upfront with him...avoiding any additional lawyer fees.

Ray Buhr

Ged McKnight wrote:

If you do make some money from my pictures then a donation
to your natioanl team (and the proof) is all I ask.

I applaud and agree with your position.

What makes this particular situation so utterly peculiar is that this
photographer is going after a small group of guys (three?) who simply
organized an online "computer flight simulation" contest held via the
internet. No real gliders involved. Not a penny was earned or paid by
anyone or to anyone. Innocent fun. A good time was had by all. Until
the lawyer called. Knowing the details I just have to shake my head
and wonder.

Regards,

-Doug