XMRadio Satellite Weather Has Arrived

What are you using to display the weather? Laptop? PDA? If PDA, which
one?

This would be a compelling reason for me to upgrade to a full-featured new
color PDA if it works well. My Palm VIIx is still pumping out the budget
wx, though.

-Ryan

Richard Kaplan wrote:

I have had the opportunity to test out the new XMRadio Satellite
Weather system (www.wxworx.com) enroute to Oshkosh... The unit is a
demo unit which has been somewhat delayed from the initial planned
production date of July 1 -- I am planning a Forums talk Wednesday
7/30 at Oshkosh on portable weather datalink and I wanted to include
the XMRadio system in the discussion. Due to the production delay, I
have been able to review the unit "cross-country" in a motorhome
enroute to Oshkosh although not yet in the airplane (yes, I know, it
should be illegal to arrive at OSH other than in an airplane, but the
motorhome turns out to be a lot more "family friendly" for camping).

Anyway, as a brief initial reaction I would say I am favorably
impressed. The final price is $629 for the hardware (plus a laptop
computer or PDA) and $49/month for unlimited weather datalink, which
is much cheaper than Echoflight or Controlvision. There is a bit of
"wire clutter" but much less than satellite phone systems I have seen
(i.e. Echoflight or Controlvision) and the portable nature of the
system is a big plus to renters.

The biggest plus of all is that weather download is automated -- no
need to keep requesting weather updates or fiddle with the computer...
while it takes a bit of hardware and software setup, once it is
configured you can let it do its thing automatically.

The digital signal processing produces images which have similar
resolution to Intellicast but seem less "sensitive" -- that is, the
location of storms well matches that on Intellicast but a lot of the
light areas on Intellicast which turn out to be virgia or minimal
precip aloft do not show up on the WxWorx system. I am not sure yet
which graphical presentation of weather I prefer (Intellicast vs.
WxWorx) but in the end they both give the critical information. The
WxWorx system also displays lightning strikes, graphical cloud tops,
and some text weather.

These are basically initial impressions...I will play with the system
a bit more over the coming weeks. For those who are attending Oshkosh
and want to get a look at the physical hardware and some screen
snapshots, my Forums presentation will be Wednesday 7/30 and a link to
the scheduling details of the presentation is on my web page at
www.flyimc.com

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Ryan Ferguson" wrote in message
...

What are you using to display the weather? Laptop? PDA? If PDA, which
one?

I am using an XP-based laptop. I have not gotten to try it on a PDA yet
(that would be another version of the program), although I was told verbally
that the PDA version will not be able to support all of the features -- no
surprise, since the laptop-based software requires 350MB free hard drive
space and they recommend at least an 850 MHz Pentium.

As far as WeatherWorx vs. Palm VIIx, I think the people who will pay
$49/month for WeatherWorx and deal with the wiring clutter are people who
use their airplanes fairly often for practical IFR travel. I think other
people will stick with the simplicity, compactness, and economic advantages
of the Palm VIIx. They each have their advantage. To hook up Weatherworx,
you need to set up the computer, satellite receiver, and XMRadio box,
certainly not something you could/would do on the fly in the air. The
advantage of WeatherWorx is that once this is all set up, it updates
automatically during the flight so it is a lot less distracting. The
advantage of the Palm VIIx is that it can just sit in the side pocket of
your airplane and you can turn it on basically on a whim if you see
unexpected weather. On top of that, the Palm VIIx runs on just 2 AAA
batteries, vs. WeatherWorx which requires either a freshly charged
laptop/PDA battery or else a connection to the airplane's cigarette lighter
power source.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Richard, thank you for posting the info on the xmradio weatherworx. I,
like many, have been searching for reliable in-cockpit weather
solutions. The closest thing to affordibility so far has been anywhere
wx from control vision, but even that is a bit pricey, and a rats nest
of wires. I use the Palm i705, and you just can't beat it for
portability and cost. However, as reliable as it is, even in flight,
there are too many times, when I just didnt get a signal or reply when
making an inflight weather request from CBAV or TurboWX.
For that past month, I have been using a poormans version of the
control vision solution...
Globalstar SAT phone, $595 list/$495 with rebate/$395 reconditioned
Ipaq H3635 pocket pc, on ebay for $100 (or any pocket pc), you can
even hook to your i705 and switch back and forth between the wireless
palm network and the SAT connection. I prefer the higher resolution
and color on the Ipaq for maps.
Globalstar data cable, $69;
IPAQ Serial Cable (not a hotsync cable, they are not the same) $20;
SAT phone is $35/month and .99/minute with 30 included min/month, or
$50/month with 120 minutes/month, .75/minute after that.
Control Visions deal is $25/month, first 100 mins free, then .99/min
after that.
A wide range of service plans to fit both budget and use.

(I do not work for any SAT phone company or aviation product company)

Data comes down at 9.6Kbps,plus I can make reliable, consistant voice
calls in flight.
I have not had any problem aquiring and holding a SAT signal in
flight, as long as the antenna is held reasonbly close to a window.
The glare shield is fine.
Admittedly, this is a request/reply setup, and I typically use
weathertap.com and flighbrief.com for inflight weather. Not that it is
very useful or fast, I can browse the web in flight, including pop3
email, etc etc...

The result is, I am juggling only a PDA, a short cable, and the sat
phone. Not Bad.

Did you ever notice how big and cumbersome even the smallest laptops
are when in the cockpit? Screen visibility in sunlight is another
concern.

About the only thing I see that XMradio has to offer is its
"broadcast" technology, and (I assume) greater bandwidth...not that
these are bad things.

BTW, I have a Delco Xmradio mounted on the pedestal of my mooney, with
the low profile antenna hiding on the glare shield...works great...but
I can't listen to Limbaugh.


Jeff Doran
Mooney N1159P ACY

As far as WeatherWorx vs. Palm VIIx, I think the people who will pay
$49/month for WeatherWorx and deal with the wiring clutter are people who
use their airplanes fairly often for practical IFR travel. I think other
people will stick with the simplicity, compactness, and economic advantages
of the Palm VIIx. They each have their advantage. To hook up Weatherworx,
you need to set up the computer, satellite receiver, and XMRadio box,
certainly not something you could/would do on the fly in the air. The
advantage of WeatherWorx is that once this is all set up, it updates
automatically during the flight so it is a lot less distracting. The
advantage of the Palm VIIx is that it can just sit in the side pocket of
your airplane and you can turn it on basically on a whim if you see
unexpected weather. On top of that, the Palm VIIx runs on just 2 AAA
batteries, vs. WeatherWorx which requires either a freshly charged
laptop/PDA battery or else a connection to the airplane's cigarette lighter
power source.

"Jeff Doran" wrote in message
m...


Did you ever notice how big and cumbersome even the smallest laptops
are when in the cockpit? Screen visibility in sunlight is another
concern.

Yes, I am somewhat concerned about that, but I know a pilot whom I have
worked with for recurrent training who swears by the WSI In Flight system
with a laptop and he says it is not inconvenient at all.. we'll see in a
month or two after some more pilots (include myself) get a bunch of
practical experience using XMRadio in the air. Maybe one of the RAM
computer mounts will be an option. Also XMRadio is supposed to support
PDAs, but we will have to see the details how well that works and what
features it can support on a PDA.


About the only thing I see that XMRadio has to offer is its
"broadcast" technology, and (I assume) greater bandwidth...not that
these are bad things.

I think the "broadcast" technology advantage is immense since this allows
5-minute updates without having to worry about cost.

I think the automatic aquisition feature of XMRadio is a major advantage
over the satellite phone setup you describe -- I have tried that myself and
decided that logging onto the Internet in-flight and making regular requests
for weather was just too much of a distraction in any sort of weather where
I really wanted the datalink information... Here with WxWorx once everything
is set up on the ground it updates the signal automatically and should not
require any pilot input at all.



--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

This may be a dumb question (it sounds like all of the replies to this
thread have been far more tech-savvy than I) but is the antenna that the xm
radio system uses specific? Why couldn't you wire their receiver into an
existing gps antenna (fixed or portable)?
Are different satellite receivers able to share an antenna? If I understand
their ad, the premium service uses the same antenna but adds a gps module to
give specific mapping data. It sounds like this is a sharing arrangement
since the gps satellites and "rock" and "roll" are obviously distinct. What
if you already have a gps (portable or panel mounted) Is the premium service
able to use the signal from that? Frank
"Jeff Doran" wrote in message
m...
Richard, thank you for posting the info on the xmradio weatherworx. I,
like many, have been searching for reliable in-cockpit weather
solutions. The closest thing to affordibility so far has been anywhere
wx from control vision, but even that is a bit pricey, and a rats nest
of wires. I use the Palm i705, and you just can't beat it for
portability and cost. However, as reliable as it is, even in flight,
there are too many times, when I just didnt get a signal or reply when
making an inflight weather request from CBAV or TurboWX.
For that past month, I have been using a poormans version of the
control vision solution...
Globalstar SAT phone, $595 list/$495 with rebate/$395 reconditioned
Ipaq H3635 pocket pc, on ebay for $100 (or any pocket pc), you can
even hook to your i705 and switch back and forth between the wireless
palm network and the SAT connection. I prefer the higher resolution
and color on the Ipaq for maps.
Globalstar data cable, $69;
IPAQ Serial Cable (not a hotsync cable, they are not the same) $20;
SAT phone is $35/month and .99/minute with 30 included min/month, or
$50/month with 120 minutes/month, .75/minute after that.
Control Visions deal is $25/month, first 100 mins free, then .99/min
after that.
A wide range of service plans to fit both budget and use.

(I do not work for any SAT phone company or aviation product company)

Data comes down at 9.6Kbps,plus I can make reliable, consistant voice
calls in flight.
I have not had any problem aquiring and holding a SAT signal in
flight, as long as the antenna is held reasonbly close to a window.
The glare shield is fine.
Admittedly, this is a request/reply setup, and I typically use
weathertap.com and flighbrief.com for inflight weather. Not that it is
very useful or fast, I can browse the web in flight, including pop3
email, etc etc...

The result is, I am juggling only a PDA, a short cable, and the sat
phone. Not Bad.

Did you ever notice how big and cumbersome even the smallest laptops
are when in the cockpit? Screen visibility in sunlight is another
concern.

About the only thing I see that XMradio has to offer is its
"broadcast" technology, and (I assume) greater bandwidth...not that
these are bad things.

BTW, I have a Delco Xmradio mounted on the pedestal of my mooney, with
the low profile antenna hiding on the glare shield...works great...but
I can't listen to Limbaugh.


Jeff Doran
Mooney N1159P ACY

As far as WeatherWorx vs. Palm VIIx, I think the people who will pay
$49/month for WeatherWorx and deal with the wiring clutter are people
who
use their airplanes fairly often for practical IFR travel. I think
other
people will stick with the simplicity, compactness, and economic
advantages
of the Palm VIIx. They each have their advantage. To hook up
Weatherworx,
you need to set up the computer, satellite receiver, and XMRadio box,
certainly not something you could/would do on the fly in the air. The
advantage of WeatherWorx is that once this is all set up, it updates
automatically during the flight so it is a lot less distracting. The
advantage of the Palm VIIx is that it can just sit in the side pocket of
your airplane and you can turn it on basically on a whim if you see
unexpected weather. On top of that, the Palm VIIx runs on just 2 AAA
batteries, vs. WeatherWorx which requires either a freshly charged
laptop/PDA battery or else a connection to the airplane's cigarette
lighter
power source.

wrote in message
...

This may be a dumb question (it sounds like all of the replies to this
thread have been far more tech-savvy than I) but is the antenna that the
xm
radio system uses specific? Why couldn't you wire their receiver into an
existing gps antenna (fixed or portable)?

The XM Radio antenna is looking for one geosynchronous satellite; it is not
looking for the 12 GPS satellites. Perhaps it would work with a GPS
antenna, perhaps not; at the very least that would require modifying the
antenna connectors since the XM Radio antenna has a connection different
from any GPS antennas I have seen.

As far as GPS inputs for moving map navigation, you can use any GPS with an
NMEA output; that includes a lot of handheld GPS units.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Ryan Ferguson" wrote in message
...

This would be a compelling reason for me to upgrade to a full-featured new
color PDA if it works well. My Palm VIIx is still pumping out the budget
wx, though.


See www.navair.com for details on the PDA product -- I tried it and am not
impressed; it is hard to get enough data on the screen for strategic weather
and there would be a lot of button/stylus work in-flight to use it
practically.

I think the laptop version (www.wxworx.com) is much more usable in flight.



--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

Just a quick clarification/update as I have had time to test this system
some more and ask a few more questions from the manufacturer:

First of all, the $629 price for the laptop-based WxWorx on Wings system by
Baron Services does not include an additional $30 for the antenna, which
brings the total cost to $659.

Second, the power requirement for the XMRadio receiver is 9VDC; however,
there is a voltage stepdown at the input to the receiver so it will accept
between 9V and 23V and therefore they anticipate it will be compatible with
most aircraft electrical systems.. .this is similar to the situation with
battery-powered GPS devices, which need to accept varying input voltages.
This is particularly important on 24V aircraft electrical systems which have
a stepped down "12V" cigarette lighter output but where this "12V" may vary
depending on the impedance of the connected device.

Next, the PDA version of their system will be sold by a separate company
called NavAiir. The PDA version apparently will be demonstrated at Oshkosh
but will not be for sale for 2-3 more weeks. It will cost $999 without the
PDA and is recommended to run on newer/faster PDAs only. It will use the
same weather data as the Weatherworx/Baron Services laptop-based system.

So my conclusions/plans a

1. Clearly there is quite a web of companies working with XMRadio to produce
weather datalink systems; it may be hard to sort out the various
relationships and there may well be new products and new companies formed
over time.

2. Both the laptop and the PDA versions of the various XMRadio weather
datalink products will clearly be memory/processor intensive and may not
work with laptops or PDAs more than 1-2 years old - read the specs carefully


3. I am convinced that the quality of the data is well worth it in a GA
cockpit, though I am concerned about the practicality of the various wires
and power connections in the cockpit. I think what I will do for myself is
to use the laptop-based version of the WxWorx system, buy a couple of A/C
inverters at Wamart with rechargable batteries, and try to put together my
own "weather datalink briefcase" which will contain my laptop computer, A/C
inverters, XMRadio receiver, and assorted wires; this should then work in
the airplane or the car (for learning purposes as I drive through
thunderstorms) or anywhere else... the ultimate "nerd bag" for a
weaher-addicted pilot. If anyone else does something like this, shared
details would be helpful.


--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com

"Richard Kaplan" writes:


3. I am convinced that the quality of the data is well worth it in a GA
cockpit, though I am concerned about the practicality of the various wires
and power connections in the cockpit. I think what I will do for myself is
to use the laptop-based version of the WxWorx system, buy a couple of A/C
inverters at Wamart with rechargable batteries, and try to put together my
own "weather datalink briefcase" which will contain my laptop computer, A/C
inverters, XMRadio receiver, and assorted wires; this should then work in
the airplane or the car (for learning purposes as I drive through
thunderstorms) or anywhere else... the ultimate "nerd bag" for a
weaher-addicted pilot. If anyone else does something like this, shared
details would be helpful.


Errr.. what exactly are you trying to run from AC?

My point being, if you have a laptop to run, you want a straight
DC-DC adapter to power it. Radios Hack sells same, (All I see now
is #273-1867, but there are others I think) as do various laptop
speciality houses. They typically come with a mating plug for your
laptop that not-so-incidently programs the output voltage.

With such, everything should run off the aircraft. You could add
a 2-4 AhH gelcell for independence, but that will build your
arm muscles..
--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

"David Lesher" wrote in message
...

Errr.. what exactly are you trying to run from AC?

Yes, you are correct... that would be better.. I do not have a cigarette
lighter adapter for my laptop but it would certainly be easier to buy that
then to deal with an A/C inverter.. the A/C inverter was suggsed by the
WeatherWorx engineer but as I thought about it you are correc it makes do
sense to go from D/C to A/C and then D/C with all the complexity involved.

--
Richard Kaplan, CFII

www.flyimc.com