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Flaps on take-off and landing



 
 
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  #21  
Old September 14th 06, 02:18 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Margy Natalie
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Posts: 476
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Mxsmanic wrote:
Thomas Borchert writes:


No. But who cares - you're not flying, you're simming.



The whole idea of simulation is to approach real life, whence the
name.


For landing, you don't want to accidentally touch the wrong switch
while in a hurry on the runway (e.g. the gear switch - happens often).
Your primary concern is to get off the runway. After that, stop and
complete the after landing checklist, which includes flaps.



Do aircraft commonly have mechanisms to prevent gear retraction when
the wheels are touching ground, or is it usually up to the pilot not
to do anything unwise?


Your stall speed is reduced by the flaps by maybe 10 or 20 knots. If
the wind is blowing enough for your stall speed to be a factor - don't
fly.



I was under the impression that full flaps is a normal configuration
for landing; is this not true?


My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes".
If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps
would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway
(like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used. If the wind
is really squirrly you might want partial flaps. Now, what flap setting
is "normal" full flaps. I flew a 172 with 40 degrees of flaps, so is
30 degrees "full flaps"? What if that's all your 172 has? The Navion
has more than 40 degrees, do I need all of that flap? It depends! (BTW
with the old engine take-off in the Navion was 0 flaps, with the new
engine it's half-flaps).

Margy

I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane.
  #22  
Old September 14th 06, 02:23 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Bob Moore
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Posts: 291
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Stubby wrote
The instructor calmly demonstrated how to use flaps just to
get a few more feet and complete the landing. It was a good
lesson but I think he owes me some new underwear.


Best glide distance with flaps is always less that best glide
distance flaps up. Bad demonstration...bad lesson learned.
The reason that most GA airplanes use flaps is to increase
drag and steepen the glide angle without increasing the speed.

Bob Moore
  #23  
Old September 14th 06, 03:32 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Roy Smith writes:

Do you guys do simulated ramp checks?


All sim users are not identical, but it certainly would not surprise
me if some of them are simulating ramp checks, as well as many other
aspects of real-world bureaucracy. Different people are interested in
different aspects of real-world aviation, and simulation generally
allows them to concentrate on the aspects that interest them most,
while letting the rest slide. In theory just about anything can be
simulated.

I personally avoid the paperwork. Sim software itself often makes no
significant provision for paperwork, beyond things like checklists and
the like, so anyone wanting the paperwork side has to pretend on his
own. MSFS allows you to file a "flight plan" for IFR flights and
simulates ATC interaction based on the flight plan, but it doesn't go
much beyond that. Fortunately for me, that's about as far as I'm
interested in going myself. The simulated ATC is limited in what it
can handle and varies from reality in a number of ways, and it
sometimes makes stupid mistakes, but it still enhances realism a great
deal.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #24  
Old September 14th 06, 03:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Mxsmanic
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Posts: 9,169
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Margy Natalie writes:

My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes".
If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps
would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway
(like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used.


Is there a reason why you'd want to land with no flaps?

I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane.


Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I
would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had
time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion
simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real
flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment.

--
Transpose mxsmanic and gmail to reach me by e-mail.
  #25  
Old September 14th 06, 03:35 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Steve Foley[_1_]
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Posts: 119
Default Flaps on take-off and landing


"Stubby" wrote in message
. ..


Does your POH describe how to use the flaps for short takeoffs, soft
field takeoffs, etc?


Yes it does. Why do you ask?


  #26  
Old September 14th 06, 04:07 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Dale
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Posts: 31
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

In article ,
Roy Smith wrote:



Think it can't happen? It does. I once had a student who owned a C-206
for umpty years and was learning the Bonanza. Flap and gear levers in
opposite positions on the two models. Damn, am I glad the squat switches
worked.


Interesting 206 that had a "gear lever". G
  #27  
Old September 14th 06, 04:19 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Thomas Borchert
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Posts: 1,749
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Mxsmanic,

Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I
would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had
time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion
simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real
flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment.


You have already been told numerous times here that you are wrong and it
is not really expensive compared to what you spend on your hobby. Your
allusions to risk, which you have made several times but never
substantiated are quite overblown. As clueless as you are about real
flying, you'd learn a ton in just one hour - if you wanted too. But I
guess you're simply not serious about your simming approaching anything
like reality.

Your problem (one of the many) seems to be that you think only flying
big jets is flying worth to be considered. You're wrong.

--
Thomas Borchert (EDDH)

  #28  
Old September 14th 06, 04:38 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Margy Natalie
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Posts: 476
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Mxsmanic wrote:
Margy Natalie writes:


My primary flight instructor had a great saying "Do whatever it takes".
If you are flying into a short field with minimal wind full flaps
would make sense. If you are flying into a long, high-speed runway
(like Dulles or something) a no flap landing can be used.



Is there a reason why you'd want to land with no flaps?


Fast approach speed. At Dulles I would take the plane over the numbers
at cruise speed. You have lots of room to slow down as it's 4000' to
the first taxiway. If you learn to do it it's not that hard. If it's
REALLY windy you might want to opt for a no flap landing.



I have a great idea, why don't you get a few hours in a "real" airplane.



Too expensive and too time-consuming. And I seriously doubt that I
would learn much of anything useful in just a few hours. If I had
time and money, I'd much prefer to spend it in certified full-motion
simulators, which would give me essentially all the experience of real
flight with zero risk and maximum flexibility and enjoyment.


Take at least an intro flight in a real airplane. I think the enjoyment
will really beat any sim.

Margy
  #29  
Old September 14th 06, 04:41 PM posted to rec.aviation.piloting
Ron Natalie
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Posts: 1,175
Default Flaps on take-off and landing

Mxsmanic wrote:
Peter Duniho writes:

I lower the flaps for the preflight inspection so that I
can properly inspect the flap mechanisms, but then retract them after engine
start and before taxiing.


Doesn't flap movement require engine power?

Depends on the aircraft. Some planes they are purely mechanical from
the flap handle in the cockpit. In others they are electric. On my
plane they are hydraulic, which is run from the engine if it is running
but has a backup "wobble pump" which I can use to retract them on the
ground if I forget to do so before shutdown.

My plane specs flaps up or 1/2 for takeoff (short field takeoff done
with 1/2). Landing can be done with any setting of flaps.
 




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