An odd clearance...can anyone explain?

On Wed, 15 Sep 2004 21:00:21 GMT, zatatime
wrote:

What is the definition of nearby? Can I file to any VOR or
intersection, say, within 20 miles of my departure point? Do I have
to actually file starting with a fix, or can I just file from any
point on an airway? Given the busy nature of the NY area, what are my
odds of getting a clearance using a fix further away? (That last one
may just come from experience). A better understanding of this sure
will help me pick better routes in the future since I'd always file to
the closest, even if I had a crappy route to my destination.

I know of no restrictions such as question.

If I am flying from, let us say, KEPM to KASH, I will either file (and be
cleared), as my initial fix, BRNNS (140 NM) or ENE (178 NM). And I could
just as easily file direct to KASH. I don't because of overwater
considerations.

And those clearances were issued when I was filing /A.

In a non-radar environment, though, different considerations apply.

So far as the NY area, close to NYC (and I would guess in most busy
airspaces), random routes are not commonly approved. I would not expect to
depart KFRG cleared direct ETX, for example. There are also altitude
restrictions on certain routings.

However, you might be able to get something like KBDR direct ACK. And if
over water distance were not a consideration, that's how I would file.


--ron

zatatime wrote in
:

What is the definition of nearby? Can I file to any VOR or
intersection, say, within 20 miles of my departure point? Do I have
to actually file starting with a fix, or can I just file from any
point on an airway? Given the busy nature of the NY area, what are my
odds of getting a clearance using a fix further away? (That last one
may just come from experience). A better understanding of this sure
will help me pick better routes in the future since I'd always file to
the closest, even if I had a crappy route to my destination.

You can file to any fix you can navigate to. I regularly file to and from
lat/lon coordinates, far from any airway. It's easier for ATC if you file to
a fix they have in the database, but it's not absolutely essential. You do
need to be able to navigate to the fix in the event of radar failure.

You may not be cleared to the fix you filed to, and perhaps won't get the
route you filed. But you can *file* what you like.

--
Regards,

Stan

Reading Don Brown's AvWeb column, filing to lat/lon's is causes problems.

Stan Gosnell wrote:
You can file to any fix you can navigate to. I regularly file to and from
lat/lon coordinates, far from any airway. It's easier for ATC if you file to
a fix they have in the database, but it's not absolutely essential. You do
need to be able to navigate to the fix in the event of radar failure.
You may not be cleared to the fix you filed to, and perhaps won't get the
route you filed. But you can *file* what you like.

"john smith" wrote in message
...

Reading Don Brown's AvWeb column, filing to lat/lon's is causes problems.


He's mistaken.

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message ink.net...
"Andrew Gideon" wrote in message
online.com...

What had you filed and what was the actual clearance?

How do you differentiate a VOR from an airport when filing? What is
the difference between SAC and SAC, what is the difference between SMO
and SMO, etc.
-Robert

"Robert M. Gary" wrote in message
om...

What had you filed and what was the actual clearance?


How do you differentiate a VOR from an airport when filing? What is
the difference between SAC and SAC, what is the difference between SMO
and SMO, etc.


On-field VORs usually have the same identifier as the airport, but not
always. In this case Lancaster Airport is LNS and Lancaster VORTAC is LRP.
It may simply be that the proposal strip had LNS..LRP..ETX... as the route
and the controller just read it as written.

(Robert M. Gary) wrote in
om:

How do you differentiate a VOR from an airport when filing? What is
the difference between SAC and SAC, what is the difference between SMO
and SMO, etc.
-Robert

In the US, put a K in front of the airport identifier. KSAC is the
airport.

"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...
(Robert M. Gary) wrote in
om:

How do you differentiate a VOR from an airport when filing? What is
the difference between SAC and SAC, what is the difference between
SMO and SMO, etc.


In the US, put a K in front of the airport identifier. KSAC is the
airport.


That's fine, but unnecessary. The position in the route indicates whether
it's an airport or navaid. If you filed SAC..SAC..SMO..SMO, for example,
the first and last fixes are assumed to be airports. Northwest Airlines
provides service from Green Bay to Minneapolis. About half their flights
are filed GRB..GRB.EAU6.MSP, the rest are filed GRB.EAU6.MSP. GRB VORTAC is
about five miles northwest of the airport but the flights are treated
exactly the same

Stan Gosnell wrote in message ...
(Robert M. Gary) wrote in
om:

How do you differentiate a VOR from an airport when filing? What is
the difference between SAC and SAC, what is the difference between SMO
and SMO, etc.
-Robert

In the US, put a K in front of the airport identifier. KSAC is the
airport.

Yes, but I want the VOR

"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote in message link.net...
"Stan Gosnell" wrote in message
...
(Robert M. Gary) wrote in
om:

That's fine, but unnecessary. The position in the route indicates whether
it's an airport or navaid. If you filed SAC..SAC..SMO..SMO, for example,
the first and last fixes are assumed to be airports. Northwest Airlines
provides service from Green Bay to Minneapolis. About half their flights
are filed GRB..GRB.EAU6.MSP, the rest are filed GRB.EAU6.MSP. GRB VORTAC is
about five miles northwest of the airport but the flights are treated
exactly the same

I guess the situations where I've had it come up are when I want to
fly the VFR route over LAX and then pick up my IFR at the SMO VOR.
When the controllers see SMO as the first fix, they seem to assume I
want to pick it up on the ground. In every case, approach as refused
to issue clearance when in the air.

-Robert