Clearance on hold, hold for release

On Jun 25, 11:37*am, Mike Adams wrote:
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

will alibrandi wrote:

When you're on tower freq & ready to go at the hold short line,
that's when you'll hear "Hold for release" as that's when the local
controller gets on the land line to the approach facility to activate
your IFR flight plan and get a release.

That's a lousy procedure. *Why wait until the aircraft is ready to
takeoff to call for the IFR release? *Call for it when the aircraft
begins taxiing and the aircraft can be cleared for takeoff when it's
ready to go.

The former is the procedure at my airport (Class D under a Class B).
After taxi and run-up, you contact tower with "ready for departure" and
they then give you "hold for release" and contact the nearby Tracon to
coordinate. Depending on the traffic at nearby airports the delay can be
signficant.

I've never heard "hold for release" from clearance delivery or ground. I
agree that this sounds like a bad procedure, and unclear on the meaning.
Maybe the (new) controller just wanted to make it clear that his
clearance did not include a release or clearance for takeoff, but that
should have been obvious it seems to me.

Mike

I don't know for sure but that might be right out of the 7110. Having
spent lots of time in the tower when I worked in airport ops, I've
seen this happen many times. The controller calls approach on the land
line to activate the flight plan once you get your clearance. Once you
taxi out & you're waiting at the hold short line (and tell the tower
you're ready) the controller then calls approach again for the
release. It's usually done within 30 seconds of a pilot's calling
ready, but then again I worked at a small Class D airport so a busy
field would probably take longer.

I guess if you're in a real big hurry you could tell the ground
controller you'll be ready upon reaching the runway. The charter co I
fly for has taxi and lineup checklists to complete so we're never in a
big rush to get in the air.

will alibrandi wrote:

I don't know for sure but that might be right out of the 7110. Having
spent lots of time in the tower when I worked in airport ops, I've
seen this happen many times. The controller calls approach on the land
line to activate the flight plan once you get your clearance. Once you
taxi out & you're waiting at the hold short line (and tell the tower
you're ready) the controller then calls approach again for the
release. It's usually done within 30 seconds of a pilot's calling
ready, but then again I worked at a small Class D airport so a busy
field would probably take longer.


Nothing in FAAO 7110.65 requires the call for the release to wait until the
aircraft is ready for takeoff. That's a lousy procedure wherever it's done.

In article ,
"Steven P. McNicoll" wrote:

will alibrandi wrote:

When you're on tower freq & ready to go at the hold short line, that's
when you'll hear "Hold for release" as that's when the local
controller gets on the land line to the approach facility to activate
your IFR flight plan and get a release. Sounds like the controller was
very unprofessional. Maybe he was a trainee? If you waited 40 minutes
that's BS. Normally you get your clearance including squawk code from
clearance delivery (or ground if combined) before you taxi. That's
been my experience, anyway.


That's a lousy procedure. Why wait until the aircraft is ready to takeoff
to call for the IFR release? Call for it when the aircraft begins taxiing
and the aircraft can be cleared for takeoff when it's ready to go.

It's been a while since I've flown IFR, but at KBED, which is
pretty close to KBOS, the mix of aircraft is such that you can't
be sure who will be ready to go first. Thus I figure Boston
Approach doesn't want to know about the guy until he is
really ready for takeoff.

The tower has, on occasion, asked aircraft if they'll be
ready upon reaching the active runway.

The only time I had a "hold for release" was at KPOU when
NY was busy and the tower advised me of a 15+ minute delay.
So I just sat at the runway with the engine off and my
handheld on (I was the only one there)

Bob Noel wrote:

It's been a while since I've flown IFR, but at KBED, which is
pretty close to KBOS, the mix of aircraft is such that you can't
be sure who will be ready to go first. Thus I figure Boston
Approach doesn't want to know about the guy until he is
really ready for takeoff.


If the controller is competent, it rarely matters who's ready first.

On Jun 25, 2:52*pm, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:
will alibrandi wrote:

I don't know for sure but that might be right out of the 7110. Having
spent lots of time in the tower when I worked in airport ops, I've
seen this happen many times. The controller calls approach on the land
line to activate the flight plan once you get your clearance. Once you
taxi out & you're waiting at the hold short line (and tell the tower
you're ready) the controller then calls approach again for the
release. It's usually done within 30 seconds of a pilot's calling
ready, but then again I worked at a small Class D airport so a busy
field would probably take longer.

Nothing in FAAO 7110.65 requires the call for the release to wait until the
aircraft is ready for takeoff. *That's a lousy procedure wherever it's done.

Okay Steve, you've made your point. Twice.

I very much appreciate all the members response. Since originally
posting, a similar IFR trip occurred from the same field. Different
controller, though.

This time after hearing "readback correct" from Clearance Delivery, I
received the departure frequency, and was told clearly I'd get the
squalk when holding ready for takeoff. I then said "ready to taxi" and
was cleared to the active.

Holding short lasted almost 45 minutes anyway, it was a low ceiling
day, and even though there were only two other aircraft waiting for
IFR release at our field, a number of local airports are combined as
far as ATC is concerned for IFR traffic and we simply had to wait our
turn.

During IFR training (at different airport) ATC used what the CFII
called a 'gate hold' ; for a period of expected delay after clearance
approval but before taxi. Engine start could then be offset that
amount of time to save fuel and reduce rwy/taxiway congestion. We
stayed in the parking spot until told to contact ground to taxi.

It's still teamwork though, pilots and ATC, and thanks to the feedback
here the next time will be more informed, and safer. Thanks!

"Hap" wrote in message
...
I very much appreciate all the members response. Since originally
posting, a similar IFR trip occurred from the same field. Different
controller, though.

This time after hearing "readback correct" from Clearance Delivery, I
received the departure frequency, and was told clearly I'd get the
squalk when holding ready for takeoff. I then said "ready to taxi" and
was cleared to the active.

Holding short lasted almost 45 minutes anyway, it was a low ceiling
day, and even though there were only two other aircraft waiting for
IFR release at our field, a number of local airports are combined as
far as ATC is concerned for IFR traffic and we simply had to wait our
turn.

During IFR training (at different airport) ATC used what the CFII
called a 'gate hold' ; for a period of expected delay after clearance
approval but before taxi. Engine start could then be offset that
amount of time to save fuel and reduce rwy/taxiway congestion. We
stayed in the parking spot until told to contact ground to taxi.

It's still teamwork though, pilots and ATC, and thanks to the feedback
here the next time will be more informed, and safer. Thanks!

That "gate hold" is the only thing that I had ever experienced while riding
along--as I have never been close to an instrument raing personally.
However, that was Pre-ElizabethDole.