Area bombing is not a dirty word.

60 years of hindsight with some revisionism thrown in have obscured the
original intent of attacking an enemy from the air. I only flew one (of 50)
mission
over cloud cover using GEE. We didn't call it area bombing. We didn't call it
blind bombing. Those are words are now used to stake out an agenda against
bombing in general. We flew the mission because it had to be flown and GEE was
the only way to get it done. And there was a war on. A very nasty unpleasant
war.
The name of the game was to go for the enemies throat. Hit him night and day
in good weather and bad with no let up and no relief. We flew the missions,
came back, buried our dead and went out again.We always hit a specific target
that had to be hit. .The idea of having the enemy hit us without our hitting
back any way we could was unthinkable. It shows weakness and gives the
inititive to the enemy, and once you have lost the initiative, you have lost
the war.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

The idea of having the enemy hit us without our hitting
back any way we could was unthinkable. It shows weakness and gives the
inititive to the enemy, and once you have lost the initiative, you have lost
the war.

Is that a quote from George W. Bush?


Chris Mark

ubject: Area bombing is not a dirty word.
From: ost (Chris Mark)
Date: 12/31/03 12:24 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

The idea of having the enemy hit us without our hitting
back any way we could was unthinkable. It shows weakness and gives the
inititive to the enemy, and once you have lost the initiative, you have lost
the war.

Is that a quote from George W. Bush?


Chris Mark


Nope. It is a paraphrase from a Military Tactics instructor at Cadet school.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

On 31 Dec 2003 20:24:11 GMT, ost (Chris Mark) wrote:

The idea of having the enemy hit us without our hitting
back any way we could was unthinkable. It shows weakness and gives the
inititive to the enemy, and once you have lost the initiative, you have lost
the war.

Is that a quote from George W. Bush?

Chris Mark

No, but this could be:

"War is an ugly thing, but it is not the ugliest of things; the
decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks
that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for
which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own
personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being
free, unless made and kept so by better men than himself."

Actually it was written more than 150 years ago by John Stuart Mill. I
have no problem finding myself in one of Mill's groupings. Do you find
pride in identifying with the other?


Ed Rasimus
Fighter Pilot (USAF-Ret)
"When Thunder Rolled"
Smithsonian Institution Press
ISBN #1-58834-103-8

"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
60 years of hindsight with some revisionism thrown in have obscured the
original intent of attacking an enemy from the air. I only flew one (of
50)
mission
over cloud cover using GEE. We didn't call it area bombing. We didn't call
it
blind bombing. Those are words are now used to stake out an agenda against
bombing in general. We flew the mission because it had to be flown and GEE
was
the only way to get it done. And there was a war on. A very nasty
unpleasant
war.
The name of the game was to go for the enemies throat.

The problem is: were you going for the enemy's throat?

Beating the enemy's fist with your face is not a good way to win.

Hit him night and day
in good weather and bad with no let up and no relief. We flew the
missions,
came back, buried our dead and went out again.We always hit a specific
target
that had to be hit. .The idea of having the enemy hit us without our
hitting
back any way we could was unthinkable. It shows weakness and gives the
inititive to the enemy, and once you have lost the initiative, you have
lost
the war.

Quite agree, however, your return blows have to be effective.

Also doing the same thing again and again is not gaining the initiative, it
is surrendering it.

Subject: Area bombing is not a dirty word.
From: "Bill Phillips"
Date: 12/31/03 3:00 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:


"ArtKramr" wrote in message
...
60 years of hindsight with some revisionism thrown in have obscured the
original intent of attacking an enemy from the air. I only flew one (of
50)
mission
over cloud cover using GEE. We didn't call it area bombing. We didn't call
it
blind bombing. Those are words are now used to stake out an agenda against
bombing in general. We flew the mission because it had to be flown and GEE
was
the only way to get it done. And there was a war on. A very nasty
unpleasant
war.
The name of the game was to go for the enemies throat.

The problem is: were you going for the enemy's throat?

Beating the enemy's fist with your face is not a good way to win.

Hit him night and day
in good weather and bad with no let up and no relief. We flew the
missions,
came back, buried our dead and went out again.We always hit a specific
target
that had to be hit. .The idea of having the enemy hit us without our
hitting
back any way we could was unthinkable. It shows weakness and gives the
inititive to the enemy, and once you have lost the initiative, you have
lost
the war.

Quite agree, however, your return blows have to be effective.

Also doing the same thing again and again is not gaining the initiative, it
is surrendering it.



Not when experience shows you that he is crumbling under your repeated blows.
And as we delivered these blows we could see him crumbling under our very eyes.



Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer

From: Ed Rasimus

Do you find
pride in identifying with the other?

Why do you believe I do?


Chris Mark

From: (ArtKramr)

Nope. It is a paraphrase from a Military Tactics instructor at Cadet school.

And here's a paraphrase from a mission briefing:

"Remember, if things get screwed up, get rid of those bombs. Find something,
anything, another target--trains, trucks, camps, emplacements, guns, troops,
anything is fair game--and drop on it. I don't care what it is. Better to
drop those bombs than bring them back here. We're not trying to save money,
it's all expendable, and we have a lot more bombs where these come from.
I want those people shook, so shook they never come out of their holes again.
If you kill them today they can't kill you tomorrow. We're not playing fair.
We're playing to win. We win by killing them. Killing them until they've had
enough and quit. They can quit any time, but until they do we are going to
kill them anywhere and anyway we can."

Q: We're dropping to rooftop height three minutes from the target and you said
to fire on "targets of opportunity" during that time. What is a "target of
opportunity"?

A: "Just strafe anything in your line of fire. Fire on anything that moves."

Q: Donkeys move, farmers move, women washing clothes move....

A: "You've got the idea. We've got to hit them where they live until they drop
their ****ing guns and quit. Do you understand?"

Complete silence in the tent.

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND?"

Yes, sir!






Chris Mark

In article , Chris Mark wrote:

And here's a paraphrase from a mission briefing:

Not a paraphrase of anything I can find on the net. Where is
it from?

Mike Beede

Subject: Area bombing is not a dirty word.
From: ost (Chris Mark)
Date: 12/31/03 4:12 PM Pacific Standard Time
Message-id:

From: (ArtKramr)

Nope. It is a paraphrase from a Military Tactics instructor at Cadet
school.

And here's a paraphrase from a mission briefing:

"Remember, if things get screwed up, get rid of those bombs. Find something,
anything, another target--trains, trucks, camps, emplacements, guns, troops,
anything is fair game--and drop on it. I don't care what it is. Better to
drop those bombs than bring them back here. We're not trying to save money,
it's all expendable, and we have a lot more bombs where these come from.
I want those people shook, so shook they never come out of their holes again.

If you kill them today they can't kill you tomorrow. We're not playing fair.

We're playing to win. We win by killing them. Killing them until they've
had
enough and quit. They can quit any time, but until they do we are going to
kill them anywhere and anyway we can."

Q: We're dropping to rooftop height three minutes from the target and you
said
to fire on "targets of opportunity" during that time. What is a "target of
opportunity"?

A: "Just strafe anything in your line of fire. Fire on anything that moves."

Q: Donkeys move, farmers move, women washing clothes move....

A: "You've got the idea. We've got to hit them where they live until they
drop
their ****ing guns and quit. Do you understand?"

Complete silence in the tent.

"DO YOU UNDERSTAND?"

Yes, sir!






Chris Mark


You live in a fantasy world of unreality.


Arthur Kramer
344th BG 494th BS
England, France, Belgium, Holland, Germany
Visit my WW II B-26 website at:
http://www.coastcomp.com/artkramer