Locomotive turbine conversion?

First of all, sorry for crosspost, but I need very good and adequate answer.
This is the first time I write on these newsgroups, sorry on my bad
english.Because in croatian Internet web pages or gruops has nothing on this
issue, I hope that you will help me!
I'm a fan of machines, first of all piston engines, but last couple of
months I've been interested in something more exotic - gas turbine engines!
I have found on Internet many webpages with home made built gas trubine
engines, but all these are small, and inefficent in matter of, that you
can't use them even for gokart ( OK, some you can ).
So I came on a crazy idea, could it be posibble to make a gas turbine
engine, from a locomotive turbo?So, if I have can do this, could it be
posibble to put it in a car... ( I don't know why could not, I have whole
idea in my head, but only problem is gas turbine, could it work as I'm
planning )?What amount of power could that size turbo produce?Estimated?
Pictures of turbo that I'm talking about:

http://www.zeljeznice.net/turbo.jpg

This turbocharger is from this locomotive:

http://www.zeljeznice.net/slike/loko...2/Dsc04232.jpg

You can see also pictures of other croatian diesel locomotives on this page:

http://www.zeljeznice.net/lokomotive/diesel/indexd.htm

Click on links too see pictures, and if you don't see pictures when you
enter page, just click "Galerija" under image.

Croatian railways have GM EMD locomotives 2043, 2044, 2061, 2062 and 2063
series, from which 2044 and 2063 have turbochargers.Could that turbo's be
used for this kind of project?

--
Posjetite:
http://www.zeljeznice.net
http://www.zeljeznice.net/forum

Guiseppe Belluzzo used turbine engines on locomotives back before WW2
and that led him to design a circular flying bomb with a flat turbine
engine- the Turbo Proietti.
If he could design that then certainly there should be some way to
adapt a train turbine to a car...

Rob

I think conversions of gasoline based internal combustion engine
turbochargers to gas turbines are not that uncommon. I saw a Sydney
University student do it for his thesis once.

An issue with diesel turbochargers is that they may be made of alloys
less heat and corrosion resistent than that of gasoline ones since the
diesel cycle has a much lower exhaust temperature (550C) than a
gasoline engine (850C). This should effect life iof the turbocharger.
Many automotive turbo's are now ceramic based.

I believe the turbochargers of diesel trucks such as SAAB and Volvo and
other European types are turbocompounded have for many years had a
hydraulic torque coupling to put surplus power not needed for the
compressor back into the drive shaft.

Eunometic wrote:
I think conversions of gasoline based internal combustion engine
turbochargers to gas turbines are not that uncommon. I saw a Sydney
University student do it for his thesis once.

An issue with diesel turbochargers is that they may be made of alloys
less heat and corrosion resistent than that of gasoline ones since the
diesel cycle has a much lower exhaust temperature (550C) than a
gasoline engine (850C). This should effect life iof the turbocharger.
Many automotive turbo's are now ceramic based.

I believe the turbochargers of diesel trucks such as SAAB and Volvo and
other European types are turbocompounded have for many years had a
hydraulic torque coupling to put surplus power not needed for the
compressor back into the drive shaft.

Most of the turbocharger conversions are using diesel, or kersosene for
fuel. Gas is much too volitle and dangerous.

"Anton" wrote in message ...
So I came on a crazy idea, could it be posibble to make a gas turbine
engine, from a locomotive turbo?So, if I have can do this, could it be
posibble to put it in a car... ( I don't know why could not, I have whole
idea in my head, but only problem is gas turbine, could it work as I'm
planning )?

Do we have a Darwin award in the making here? :^)

Si

"Anton" wrote in message ...
First of all, sorry for crosspost, but I need very good and adequate
answer.
This is the first time I write on these newsgroups, sorry on my bad
english.Because in croatian Internet web pages or gruops has nothing on
this
issue, I hope that you will help me!
I'm a fan of machines, first of all piston engines, but last couple of
months I've been interested in something more exotic - gas turbine
engines!
I have found on Internet many webpages with home made built gas trubine
engines, but all these are small, and inefficent in matter of, that you
can't use them even for gokart ( OK, some you can ).
So I came on a crazy idea, could it be posibble to make a gas turbine
engine, from a locomotive turbo?

Yes, its been done with the turbo's for road vehicles

http://www.channel4.com/science/micr...ry_team02.html

So, if I have can do this, could it be
posibble to put it in a car... ( I don't know why could not, I have whole
idea in my head, but only problem is gas turbine, could it work as I'm
planning )?What amount of power could that size turbo produce?Estimated?
Pictures of turbo that I'm talking about:

http://www.zeljeznice.net/turbo.jpg


Sure BUT it would be a very complex build as you'd need to build a
compressor stage and burner cans and then couple the
high revving turbine to the transmission.

This turbocharger is from this locomotive:

http://www.zeljeznice.net/slike/loko...2/Dsc04232.jpg

You can see also pictures of other croatian diesel locomotives on this
page:

http://www.zeljeznice.net/lokomotive/diesel/indexd.htm

Click on links too see pictures, and if you don't see pictures when you
enter page, just click "Galerija" under image.

Croatian railways have GM EMD locomotives 2043, 2044, 2061, 2062 and 2063
series, from which 2044 and 2063 have turbochargers.Could that turbo's be
used for this kind of project?


Given enough time and money you can build anything and gas turbine cars
have been built. The real question is why ?

Such a vehicle is likely to be unreliable and extremely inefficient in
using fuel and probably could not be certified for road use.
A better approach may be a hybrid using a small gas turbine running
at constant speed to charge a battery for an electrically driven
vehicle.

Keith

"Keith W" wrote in message
...
Given enough time and money you can build anything and gas turbine cars
have been built. The real question is why ?

Marine Turbine Technologies build production motorcycles and trucks with
helicopter turbo-shaft engines:

http://www.marineturbine.com/motorsports.asp

Si

"Keith W" wrote

Yes, its been done with the turbo's for road vehicles

http://www.channel4.com/science/micr...ges/jet_racer/
diary_team02.html

Hmm...That text is little bit confusing, in fact I don't really understand
what are they talking about...They have said much, but still, nothing.Only
some story from that race.

Sure BUT it would be a very complex build as you'd need to build a
compressor stage and burner cans and then couple the
high revving turbine to the transmission.

I know.High revs can be solved with reductor.Now, I need more information
about compressor stage and burner cans
I presume that all this could fit to a car, for example Ford Cortina, or
something like that.
How strong must be, I mean how much thrust could turbocharger from car
produce?Could I make a one man vehicle from that?

Given enough time and money you can build anything and gas turbine cars
have been built. The real question is why ?

I know that gas turbine cars have been built, but the real question is, have
they been built in private garages?
Why?
Why do people climb on mountains, why do people surf, why do people like
diving..?
I hope you understand what am I aiming for.I want to have a first gas
turbine powered car in Croatia. Is that enough?
Jet powered streetrace car...Hmm...Nice... ( like Homer Simpson would said )


Such a vehicle is likely to be unreliable and extremely inefficient in
using fuel and probably could not be certified for road use.

That isn't my intention at all.I want to make that car, not for daily use,
but for streetrace, for example, why not?That would be a show...

A better approach may be a hybrid using a small gas turbine running
at constant speed to charge a battery for an electrically driven
vehicle.

If I wanted to do that, I would go on some 1.4 liter diesel engine, which
can I buy almost everywhere and make electric car.

Anton wrote:
"Keith W" wrote

Yes, its been done with the turbo's for road vehicles

Sure BUT it would be a very complex build as you'd need to build a
compressor stage and burner cans and then couple the
high revving turbine to the transmission.

I know.High revs can be solved with reductor.Now, I need more information
about compressor stage and burner cans
I presume that all this could fit to a car, for example Ford Cortina, or
something like that.
How strong must be, I mean how much thrust could turbocharger from car
produce?Could I make a one man vehicle from that?


So... When I was young, my father told me, "If you have to ask how much
it costs, then you probably can't afford it."

I work in computer software. Once a month or so, someone will ask me,
"how hard would it be to build a program which does XYZ?"

The answer: "That depends."

It depends especially on WHO is building the program.

Have you totally rebuilt an old car, with your own hands, from the
wheels up?

Have you ever taken a car and fitted a much larger engine to it?

Have you ever worked with turbine engines before? (Obviously not, based
on your questions)

If you read about how the Wright brothers built their airplane, they
tackled it in pieces, one step at a time. First they built kites, then
gliders, a wind tunnel, did lots of experiments, another glider, and
then the Flyer. They learned how to solve each problem one at a time.

In order to succeed, you first need to turn your turbochargers into a
turbine engine. Before you can even begin to think about doing this you
need to learn how turbines work. Then you can begin laying out a plan.
This is a project that would probably keep you busy for 5 years if you
work part-time.

As for how much power it puts out, who knows? There's a ton of
variables in there. I'd suspect a few hundred horsepower, maybe more,
quite likely less. It will probably turn out heavier than an equivalent
piston engine, and thus the car will actually go slower. How cool will
that be?

Best,
-cwk.

wrote

So... When I was young, my father told me, "If you have to ask how much
it costs, then you probably can't afford it."

Not true.

Have you totally rebuilt an old car, with your own hands, from the
wheels up?

Yes, if you have to ask, you can see it on this web page:

http://free-vk.t-com.hr/taunus

Switched engines, completely restaureted V6, new brakes, and all other
things.That chrashed my brother, so I have done same thing with another one,
in which I added completely new exhaust system, painted and all bodywork by
myself.

Have you ever taken a car and fitted a much larger engine to it?

Read up.Before that 2.8 V6, engine vas 1.6 4-cyl.

Have you ever worked with turbine engines before? (Obviously not, based
on your questions)

No.I prefer NA engines.Even now.I'm interested in turbines as engines, not
like add on to piston engines.

In order to succeed, you first need to turn your turbochargers into a
turbine engine. Before you can even begin to think about doing this you
need to learn how turbines work. Then you can begin laying out a plan.

I know principles, after all, I'm studying railway traffic, and we have many
mechanical courses.

This is a project that would probably keep you busy for 5 years if you
work part-time.

You mean on locomotive turbine into car, or just plain turbocharger
converting to gas turbine?If is this last, then you must se what people on
intrent have made for month or less with scrap turbocharges from local
junkyard.

As for how much power it puts out, who knows? There's a ton of
variables in there. I'd suspect a few hundred horsepower, maybe more,
quite likely less. It will probably turn out heavier than an equivalent
piston engine, and thus the car will actually go slower.

Why?That doesn't mean that it must be like you said.

How cool will
that be?

Why that tone?I mean, what is so wrong if I ask something like this?A guy
near my town built a motorcycle with tractor diesel engine.It's slow, but
it's cool, so?
A guy in Serbia made Yugo who works on wood?I mean, wood is fuel, and the
principle is,hm...You'll understand, I don't have that much knowledge in
english...