Why no new diesel radials?

Any comparison on energy content diesel v vegetable oil?

"Montblack" wrote in message
...
("On-Condition" wrote)

I didn't tell him I was planning on running discarded Chinese buffet
"grease" through it. g

Heat the grease with exhaust tubing - start and shut down with a small
Jet-A tank. See, I've thought this all through.

http://www.greasecar.com/index.cfm
Check out the FAQs


On Dutch television they showed a diesel truck that could switch from
regular diesel to chicken fat, garbage from a chicken processing plant. The
truck ran equally well on both types of 'fuel'...

Can you imagine stuffing chicken waste in your diesel-powered plane?

Two thoughts:
1. See, chickens *can* fly!
2. Finally a positive effect of a bird strike..

Rob

On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:38:52 +0200, "Rob Turk"
wrote:

On Dutch television they showed a diesel truck that could switch from
regular diesel to chicken fat, garbage from a chicken processing plant. The
truck ran equally well on both types of 'fuel'...

Can you imagine stuffing chicken waste in your diesel-powered plane?

2. Finally a positive effect of a bird strike..

All you need is something like a Bussard ramscoop, and you can fly forever.....


Ron "Or a Bustard Ramscoop" Wanttaja

Just imagine the entries to all the fly in's smelling like fried
chicken!!!!

Patrick
student SPL
aircraft structural mech

"Ron Wanttaja" wrote in message
...
On Sun, 11 Sep 2005 22:38:52 +0200, "Rob Turk"
wrote:

On Dutch television they showed a diesel truck that could switch from
regular diesel to chicken fat, garbage from a chicken processing plant.
The
truck ran equally well on both types of 'fuel'...

Can you imagine stuffing chicken waste in your diesel-powered plane?

2. Finally a positive effect of a bird strike..

All you need is something like a Bussard ramscoop, and you can fly
forever.....


Ron "Or a Bustard Ramscoop" Wanttaja

Rob Turk wrote:
"Montblack" wrote in message
...
("On-Condition" wrote)

I didn't tell him I was planning on running discarded Chinese buffet
"grease" through it. g

Heat the grease with exhaust tubing - start and shut down with a small
Jet-A tank. See, I've thought this all through.

http://www.greasecar.com/index.cfm
Check out the FAQs


On Dutch television they showed a diesel truck that could switch from
regular diesel to chicken fat, garbage from a chicken processing plant. The
truck ran equally well on both types of 'fuel'...

Some buses in Halifax ran on fishing industry waste oils.
For all I know that could be the whole fleet by now.

What I like about diesel in airplanes is the possibility
of low rpm power for sometimes double the range (at lower
speeds). A radial will turn very smoothly at 1000 rpm
and the diesel would be torquing near optimum just audible
around 1400-1600 (?).

Montblack wrote:
("On-Condition" wrote)
BTW, weren't there some diesel radials in the early days of
aviation? I've seen some photos I think. The high torque
of diesel almost begs for that can't-keep-from-turning
radial geometry.


http://www.goldenwingsmuseum.com/Aircraft%20Pages/Stin-Det.html
Golden Wings Museum
1928 Stinson Detroiter Packard Diesel

http://home.earthlink.net/~ralphcooper/pimagh34.htm

2 lbs/hp, but that was then. I'm sure 1/1 could be
had today (for air cooled).

Zoche had displayed his radial Diesels at Oshkosh for some twenty
years.They were extremely smooth running two stroke turbocharged single
or twin row configurations. Compact, light, and well designed. Zoche
was most likely ahead of the market.
See back issues of Sport Aviation.
Don Black

"Kyle Boatright" wrote

And if you add up all the Sukhois, Murphy Mooses (not rebels), Thrushes,
etc. it isn't a drop in the bucket. There isn't nearly enough volume there
to make a radial diesel worthwhile for someone who wants to make money.

I would think that the reason is not economics, but the suitability of a
radial for diesel.

You always see diesels using a very stout block, and very stout cranks and
rods. Could a radial diesel be beefed up enough? I don't know, but I think
the answer is no.

GM tried to use a gas engine block converted to diesel, and it was a dismal
failure. That even had a solid cast iron block, and stout crank, and that
wasn't even up to the task.

Individual jugs are weak, since they blow off even with gasoline pressures,
sometimes. How much stronger would they have to be, for diesel? Could it
be done using separate cylinders?

A master rod may be strong enough, but I would think that the slave rods and
pins would not be. They would have to be extremely beefed up to stand the
pressures. I don't know if there would be enough room in the case to do it.

Good questions raised here. Answers?
--
Jim in NC

Morgans wrote:
"Kyle Boatright" wrote

And if you add up all the Sukhois, Murphy Mooses (not rebels), Thrushes,
etc. it isn't a drop in the bucket. There isn't nearly enough volume there
to make a radial diesel worthwhile for someone who wants to make money.

I would think that the reason is not economics, but the suitability of a
radial for diesel.

You always see diesels using a very stout block, and very stout cranks and
rods. Could a radial diesel be beefed up enough? I don't know, but I think
the answer is no.

GM tried to use a gas engine block converted to diesel, and it was a dismal
failure. That even had a solid cast iron block, and stout crank, and that
wasn't even up to the task.

Individual jugs are weak, since they blow off even with gasoline pressures,
sometimes. How much stronger would they have to be, for diesel? Could it
be done using separate cylinders?

Pressures during misfiring/backfiring are considerable also
but don't bust the jugs. I'm no engine expert but think that
jug failures are mostly O/H, fatique or casting related (?)
and they sure do happen on opposed gas engines as well as
radials. The difference is that a radial (at least one I saw)
just kept on going.

Most gas radials I've seen/flown had around 8:1 compression,
that's food for thought. Just wondering though, are the german
aircooled diesel cylinders intergral with the block?


A master rod may be strong enough, but I would think that the slave rods and
pins would not be. They would have to be extremely beefed up to stand the
pressures. I don't know if there would be enough room in the case to do it.

Good questions raised here. Answers?

"On-Condition" wrote

Just wondering though, are the german
aircooled diesel cylinders intergral with the block?

I think they are bolt on, but in a dual assembly. Not positive.
--
Jim in NC