Crash Videos

I can't believe how the video broohah got this group so stirred up and
how it created animosity that may never go away.
I am a proponent of seeing those videos and see if I can learn from
them. And, to clarify it, I've been flying more than 50 years, got
almost 22,000 hours now and have done just about everything in general
aviation. I've crashed and got scars to show for it. I also learned
from my mistakes and endeavor to pass along the wisdom derived from
them.
I am not published in any Who's Who, and don't make any claims to be
the ace of the base. I don't fly fighter jets, don't do airshows or
demonstrations of high performance aircraft. I don't claim to be a
co-author of any noteworthy publications that weigh 7 pounds and
relate to flight safety.
All I am is a pilot who has done a lot of flying, made a lot of
mistakes and never killed anyone that wasn't supposed to be killed. I
try to conduct myself as a gentleman and professional with due regard
for those I am speaking to. Yes I get abrasive from time to time and
will definately stand my ground when I feel I am right along with an
attempt at a coherent and cogent response.
Over a number of years in my participation on the news groups I think
I have proven my point and position without resorting to profanity.
While I can understand the frustration and desires to do so, it never
was fruitful for me.
So, once again, I am not afraid to look at crash videos and see what I
can glean from them. Disregard the accompanying comments or
descriptions of the bystanders or the audio feed...they are often by
people who can't tell their right from left and ZERO understanding of
what they are looking at? Pick out what you can to avoid doing the
same thing in the future.
There...I feel much better.
OK here it is again.....ATP,ASMELSR(IFR), CFII/RAM Gold Seal (issued
in 1967) and a flight background that makes many people shake their
head. 13,000+ FW and 8,000+ RW worldwide. I'm still active as a CFI FW
and helicopter pilot.
Yes I know there are those who have more and more. I'm just posting it
for my own qualifications and argument position.
As a kind of ????? Those who don't learn from history are doomed to
repeat it? How about accidents and incidents?
Ol Shy & Bashful

SelwayKid wrote:

snip

As a lurker, I'll say this post has merits. SeklwayKid stuck his/her
neck out and told stories and thoughts.
That is as good as any "crash video".

Dudley hates em, and I can understand why.

~d

I stayed out of that other topic as it became a ****ing contest between
two people that should've gone private a LONG time ago.

On the videos...when I was visiting Ground Zero a couple months
ago, there were these asian folks trying to sell "cool" books of
pictures of 9/11 at the site with a smile on their face. The mood
there was understandably pretty somber, but it was turning to
anger with these clowns hanging around and pushing their product.
I look at the guy who started this whole subject, who I'd never
personally seen in these groups before, the same way. Usually
people like him, with blatant advertising, who wasnt a regular
poster on here, would be ran out so fast it made the head spin.
Many people put up with Jay's advertising because he has been
here for a long while, before the hotel, isn't a troll, and posts
on all kinds of subjects. This other guy wasn't that at all, he just
lobs a molotov coctail of a link, and tries to justify his site that would
usually end up with everyone flaming or plonking him. Why the
special treatment?

It's nothing but sensational aviation snuff videos. If that does it
for you, have at it. It isn't censorship if someone doesnt agree
with showing them to the world with glee. Censorship is demanding
they be taken down, which I didnt hear in Dudleys (much too long)
comments. We all know there is that portion of society that likes
to see this stuff, they also like reality-tv, which, I dont know about
you, I can't wait for that fad to permanently go away. I guess some
people need to see misery, death, and destruction to either feel
"alive" or be consoled that they don't have it so bad after all. A
pretty pathetic existence IMNSHO.

Jay, I didnt see the part of your site with the crash videos, and assume
it's been altered now. But I keep up several sites that change with
time, I get the impression you added videos that weren't so "cool"
but didnt change the page description? There's not much an excuse
for a mistake like that, there is nothing to enjoy or that is cool
about the kinds of videos people have been discussing on here.
The 9/11 shots are important in that we never forget, but sure arent
enjoyable or cool, once again, in my opinion.

Chris
--
Steve Bosell for President 2004
"Vote for me or I'll sue you"
www.philhendrieshow.com

"SelwayKid" wrote in message
om...
I can't believe how the video broohah got this group so stirred up and
how it created animosity that may never go away.

Good post. The threads that have degenerated into personal profane attacks
are truly beneath the caliber of this group. There have been several of them
lately.

Without naming names, I am very disappointed in the folks who have resorted
to obscene tactics because I always enjoyed their posts in the past. Sad.

If you can't make your point without using personal attacks and profanity,
please take it offline, otherwise you are defacing this otherwise great
group. And you end up looking like a jerk to boot.

-Trent
PP-ASEL

"Trent Moorehead" wrote
Without naming names, I am very disappointed in the folks who have
resorted
to obscene tactics because I always enjoyed their posts in the past. Sad.


Agreed. When I pointed that out, I was called what? An idiot? I don't
remember. Not important.

I am here for enjoyment, and enlightenment, and when a person interrupts
that, I don't need them.
--
Jim in NC




---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.752 / Virus Database: 503 - Release Date: 9/3/2004

Jay, I didnt see the part of your site with the crash videos, and assume
it's been altered now. But I keep up several sites that change with
time, I get the impression you added videos that weren't so "cool"
but didnt change the page description? There's not much an excuse
for a mistake like that, there is nothing to enjoy or that is cool
about the kinds of videos people have been discussing on here.
The 9/11 shots are important in that we never forget, but sure arent
enjoyable or cool, once again, in my opinion.

To which I pled guilty early on in that horrible, bitter thread.

I've already altered a couple of the less appropriate phrases on the site
(which can be seen at http://alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm ), but I
haven't had time to tinker with it much. (As can be noted by the fact that
it still says "Enjoy!" after my little primer on how to make the videos
play. That single word, written long before any "disaster" type videos were
added to the site, inflamed poor Dudley to the point of apoplexy.)

As I explained elsewhere, I consider this page to be an insignificant,
off-topic page in a gigantic website, on a par with my page on "Fly-in
Museums." I put it together long ago, and have only added videos as people
have sent them to me in little dribs and drabs over the years.

The fact that I never again looked at the header for the page as I added new
(and more disastrous) video is a shame, and something I truly regret.
However, this fact would never have come to light at all had I not sent the
URL to Dudley for his critique, in hopes that he would actually help me
write some safety-related captions for each video.

THAT turned out to be a truly dumb idea, but it was all quite innocent, I
assure you.

Either way, I will be making major changes to the page in the coming days,
but right now I've got a full house and pilots here from both coasts to take
care of first.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"SelwayKid" wrote in message
om...
I don't claim to be a
co-author of any noteworthy publications that weigh 7 pounds and
relate to flight safety.

Just a slight correction here, and the rest of the post is fine.

"Zero Error Margin" is a stand alone volume completely written by Gen
Des Barker of the SAAF. Gen Barker gathered together an international
team of professional air show demonstration pilots who contributed their
time and energy to the project at no charge.
The book contains probably the world's most comprehensive data base on
air show related accidents ranging from 1952 to the present. All major
and even minor accidents were covered complete with full reports, and
reviews from professional demonstration pilots who comment on how these
accidents might have been prevented.
Although my comments appear throughout the book on various subjects
relating to airshow demonstration flight safety, demonstration pilot
physical and mental conditioning, and misc other comment, my main
contribution was a comprehensive report on low altitude vertical
recoveries in vintage prop fighters which appears in the chapter "Flying
the Demonstration". This report was also carried in Aeroplane Monthly
Feb issue 2004 in a feature article by Gen Barker "Precision Decision"
I was simply a small part of a world wide team invited to take part in
this project.
I was NOT the co-author of the book.
Returning you now to your discussion.
Dudley Henriques
International Fighter Pilots Fellowship

Agreed. When I pointed that out, I was called what? An idiot? I don't
remember. Not important.

I am here for enjoyment, and enlightenment, and when a person interrupts
that, I don't need them.

Well, Jim, I always try to remember where I am, and to keep a thick skin
along with a good sense of humor. Usenet ain't for wimps.

Shoot, I was called far worse than "idiot" in that thread, but, hell, Weir
has called me worse than that on a GOOD day. ;-) In the end it's good to
always remember that we're all here for the same reason: A love of
aviation.

Nothing should obscure that.

Dudley can be a passionate, mouthy, profane, goofy-as-hell, arrogant dolt --
but he also happens to know stuff about many aspects of aviation that I
don't know, and can never personally experience. He is also passionate
about what he knows, and is willing to stand up for what he believes --
which is a helluva lot more than I can say for a lot of the mealy-mouthed
folks I've met here over the years.

What he says may be wrong as hell, but I'll defend to the death his right to
say it.

As a result, I won't killfile him, and would, in fact, still offer him a
beer if he were to land at my airport. We might beat each other half to
death, if that were to actually happen, but, in the end, I will have learned
a thing or three that I couldn't have learned from anyone else.

Sometimes you've got to take a lot of bad to see the good.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:55Q%c.2868$MQ5.2565@attbi_s52...
Jay, I didnt see the part of your site with the crash videos, and assume
it's been altered now. But I keep up several sites that change with
time, I get the impression you added videos that weren't so "cool"
but didnt change the page description? There's not much an excuse
for a mistake like that, there is nothing to enjoy or that is cool
about the kinds of videos people have been discussing on here.
The 9/11 shots are important in that we never forget, but sure arent
enjoyable or cool, once again, in my opinion.

To which I pled guilty early on in that horrible, bitter thread.

I've already altered a couple of the less appropriate phrases on the site
(which can be seen at http://alexisparkinn.com/aviation_videos.htm ), but
I
haven't had time to tinker with it much. (As can be noted by the fact
that
it still says "Enjoy!" after my little primer on how to make the videos
play. That single word, written long before any "disaster" type videos
were
added to the site, inflamed poor Dudley to the point of apoplexy.)

As I explained elsewhere, I consider this page to be an insignificant,
off-topic page in a gigantic website, on a par with my page on "Fly-in
Museums." I put it together long ago, and have only added videos as
people
have sent them to me in little dribs and drabs over the years.

The fact that I never again looked at the header for the page as I added
new
(and more disastrous) video is a shame, and something I truly regret.
However, this fact would never have come to light at all had I not sent
the
URL to Dudley for his critique, in hopes that he would actually help me
write some safety-related captions for each video.

THAT turned out to be a truly dumb idea, but it was all quite innocent, I
assure you.

Either way, I will be making major changes to the page in the coming days,
but right now I've got a full house and pilots here from both coasts to
take
care of first.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"


I think making any changes is a mistake. Ask 100 people get 101 opinions.
I've watched 90% of the videos and I've seen pretty much every one of them
on TLC, History Channel or Discovery Channel at some point. Ignoring reality
won't make it go away, we just need to learn from our mistakes and everyone
else's. The old pilot adage of learn from other peoples mistakes because you
won't live long making them all yourself is extremely true. Pick up a copy
of Flying Magazine or Plane and Pilot, there is always stories of people
getting themselves killed with lots of good tips on what to do and not to do
to avoid the same fate.

----------------------------------------

"Jay Honeck" writes:

and would, in fact, still offer him a
beer if he were to land at my airport. We might beat each other half to
death, if that were to actually happen,

Gee. I didn't get either the beer or the beating when I landed at
your airport last year. Sniff :-(