NATCA Going Down in Flames

"Larry Dighera" wrote in message
...

Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and
deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA
stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA
developed and implemented something similar.


What have they developed and deployed? I know Lockheed Martin built Common
ARTS under an FAA contract, and I'm aware that Boeing has proposed new
systems but I'm unaware of anything they've got operating in the field.
:


You may be correct about the ultimate cost, but initially the
contractor would have to propose something reasonably priced to win
the bidding competition.


Why would privatization require any new equipment?

On Tue, 12 Sep 2006 21:36:24 -0400, Bob Noel
wrote in
:

In article ,
Larry Dighera wrote:

Well, I believe Boeing and LocMart have already developed (and
deployed) modern ATC systems (probably superior to the existing FAA
stuff), so modernization could be much more rapid than if the FAA
developed and implemented something similar.

What does Boeing or LocMart have that is better or more modern than
STARS (which is being deployed now)?

Bob, I don't have a specific answer to your question, as I don't claim
to be familiar with STARS nor Boeing/LocMart ATC systems.

But, with the information available he
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...5507ef e7687a
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...c064f4 593ed8
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...c48943 be68c0
http://groups.google.com/group/rec.a...a4edd7 c06ebd
You may find the answer.

Is STARS space-based?

Jose wrote:
However, we're talking about shorts, not bathrobe. Do you find that,
WHEN you get dressed, that your performance improves with a higher
standard of dress (once you are above the standard required to go to the
store)? Do you work better in a tie?

I work more professionally. Personally, I find that when I'm working
with others that care about their appearance I find that we are more
productive. Professional is professional. Whether its in writing,
dress, mannerisms, or the voice on the radio.

And we aren't talking about a requirement for suit and tie. We're
talking about a dress code that (sometimes referred to as "business
casual") that probably 90% of the white-collar workforce uses. The
controllers want to be able to conform to the "beach bum" standard.
(Or at least their union does)

Agreed. With rules like this, do you think the controllers feel like
they're on the same team as the FAA (who is making the rules)?

I don't care if they think they are on the same team as the FAA. I
care if they think they are on the same team as their co-controllers.
FAA sets the standards as management. They should deal with it.

Yes, key word "operating". I maintain that shorts do not affect how one
controls traffic.

The FAA (who's setting the standards) disagrees. As do I.

No. I'm saying dress is probably not high on the list.

And I'm saying that even things down on the list can help improve
things that are higher on the list. Like say forcing people who can't
conform to a simple dress code (anti-authority) to leave the
organzation or change their ways and be more team like. You see the
poor controllers that can't wear shorts. I see anti-authority
behavior. Something I seem to remember reading about in the AIM.

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
I believe most facilities still work on a seven week rotation. Two evening
shifts, followed by two day shifts, followed by two days off, then repeat.
That's six days so your two days off advance by one day each week. It's
juggled a bit when the two days off are on a weekend so that there's two
natural weekends off in a row. That's the schedule for a facility that
closes at night. At 24 hour facilities you'll get a day-mid. Come in at
about six AM and then back that same day about 10 PM.

Thanks. Interesting scheduling. Whats the length of a shift and break
time? Is it standardized across all facilities?

If they are drowsy on shift, maybe they shouldn't be on shift.


Agreed. What solution would you recommend? Allow naps while on break?
Send drowsy employees home on leave? Fire them?

I would suggest they get sleep before coming into work. Utilizing the
sick policy if they don't. Allowing naps, means that a controller might
be more willing to party hearty the night before, since they know they
can just take a nap during their breaks. If that option isn't
available to them, maybe they'll be more accommodating to their
required sleep schedule.

Jose wrote:
In the article that I read, the FAA said that the napping had a
detrimental affect on performance. It meant the controllers were
groggy when returning to the scope.

So maybe the FAA has their own study.

If they do, I'm unaware of it. However, length of nap was important, as
well as when (and how) they were woken up. Being woken up in some
phases of sleep is better than others.

So perhaps in a on-demand facility (where a terrorist incident might
require ATC to perform a lot of functions at a moments notice) is the
wrong place to be taking a nap where you might not be at peak
proficiency if your in the wrong phase of sleep.

Brian

Jose wrote:
I think the beautification projects had no impact on the traffic
problems plaguing the city. They had no impact on bridge maintanance.
They had no impact on water quality. They had no impact on corruption.

They made the city prettier, in some places, by some people's opinions.
Maybe this increased tourism, or encouraged businesses to stay rather
than leave. It might have had an effect on rents.

Hmm. Might it have increased taxe revenue too? Thereby allowing more
bridge maintenance? How about those bridge maintenance crews didn't
have to spend as much time working around graffitti? Perhaps they took
more pride in their work? Gave that extra 10%? Made them feel more
professional? That their work wasn't just trashed to no avail by the
next street gang?

But now we're heading off-topic....

"bdl" wrote in message
oups.com...

I work more professionally. Personally, I find that when I'm working
with others that care about their appearance I find that we are more
productive. Professional is professional. Whether its in writing,
dress, mannerisms, or the voice on the radio.


What work do you do on the radio?

Steven P. McNicoll wrote:
What work do you do on the radio?

I don't. I was alluding to controllers.

"bdl" wrote in message
oups.com...

Thanks. Interesting scheduling. Whats the length of a shift and break
time? Is it standardized across all facilities?


Eight hour shifts, mimumum of eight hours off between shifts. Those are
national standards.



I would suggest they get sleep before coming into work.


What if they do and they're drowsy anyway?



Utilizing the sick policy if they don't.


That's not permitted.



Allowing naps, means that a controller might
be more willing to party hearty the night before, since they know they
can just take a nap during their breaks. If that option isn't
available to them, maybe they'll be more accommodating to their
required sleep schedule.


Maybe. But what is the problem with napping while on a break anyway?

"bdl" wrote in message
oups.com...

So perhaps in a on-demand facility (where a terrorist incident might
require ATC to perform a lot of functions at a moments notice) is the
wrong place to be taking a nap where you might not be at peak
proficiency if your in the wrong phase of sleep.


You're describing controllers working a position. We're not talking about
them. We're talking about controllers napping while on a break so that they
may be alert when they return to work a position.