ASG-29E vs. JS-1Jet Sustainer

On 30/01/2015 23:21, wrote:

Jets are very noisy, albeit directionally so in flight, there's not
much left to investigate about that. It's more a question pilots and
airfields reaching an understanding about their use. Surely an
airfield management or gliding club chief instructor can ban jet
glider self launches (which would be outwith the glider's TC any),
unauthorised powered low passes and/or use within a specified
distance from the airfield? That is what I am planning to
self-impose if and when I get my turbine installed. It would be a
sorry state of affairs if an airfield couldn't keep that level of
discipline.

There were a few Jet JS1's a the SA Grand Prix Qualifier. Some of these
got fired up a few times when I was around the airfield. There were some
fly passes, run ups before launch and once, after finish, when 6 or 7
gliders were looking for place to land from 50m finish altitude at the
same time.

Yes, there are noisy, but not that noisy. My impression is that they
were less intrusive or annoying than the local flight school's Cessna
152. The jet noise was more of a novelty than a discomfort. I did not
notice anybody cringing with their fingers in their ears.

One or two jet pilots did ground run ups before launch. I suspect they
were just being cautious rather than this being a required procedure.
But if you have a "zero jet noise on the airfield" policy, you may be
constrained from doing a pre-launch run-up.


Ian

All but 1 (2006) of the WGC Standard Class have been won by the D2.

Not sure what you mean by "it does not seem to be quite equal at the World
level"

It's not so popular here in the UK because of its perceived inability to
climb. In stronger conditions it seems to go OK.

KN

At 05:56 01 February 2015, Sean Fidler wrote:
The Discus 2 is clearly a great glider. I'm not sure why it does not
seem
to be quite equal (or as popular) at the World level.

At 07:16 01 February 2015, Ian wrote:
On 30/01/2015 23:21, wrote:

Jets are very noisy, albeit directionally so in flight, there's not
much left to investigate about that. It's more a question pilots and
airfields reaching an understanding about their use. Surely an
airfield management or gliding club chief instructor can ban jet
glider self launches (which would be outwith the glider's TC any),
unauthorised powered low passes and/or use within a specified
distance from the airfield? That is what I am planning to
self-impose if and when I get my turbine installed. It would be a
sorry state of affairs if an airfield couldn't keep that level of
discipline.

There were a few Jet JS1's a the SA Grand Prix Qualifier. Some of these
got fired up a few times when I was around the airfield. There were
some
fly passes, run ups before launch and once, after finish, when 6 or 7
gliders were looking for place to land from 50m finish altitude at the
same time.

Yes, there are noisy, but not that noisy. My impression is that they
were less intrusive or annoying than the local flight school's Cessna
152. The jet noise was more of a novelty than a discomfort. I did not
notice anybody cringing with their fingers in their ears.

One or two jet pilots did ground run ups before launch. I suspect they
were just being cautious rather than this being a required procedure.
But if you have a "zero jet noise on the airfield" policy, you may be
constrained from doing a pre-launch run-up.


Ian


Doesn't seem to be a problem in the more densely populated UK which
now has quite a number of HpH Shark jets and probably more NIMBY's
per head of population than the USA. Tom's being a bit of a 'prophet of
doom' I think.

I'm just looking at the top 3 in the 18 meter class for the last 4-5 Worlds when I say the Ventus 2 seems to not be quite equal to the 29 and JS1. I agree that in the reality that I have witnessed in the US (best 18m US pilot DJ flies a V2) is that the V2 is well within the "margin of pilot/performance error." But at the World level, the 29 seems to be the clearly dominant 18m machine with the JS1 right on its heels and the V2 in trail. Perhaps that is just a function of market share. The JS1 seems to be selling well along with the 29. I cannot remember the last time I heard of a new V2 being purchased.

If I said the D2 earlier that was an error. In Standard class the D2 is clearly ultra competitive. Again I am talking about the 18 meter flapped.

I know this post is 6 months old, but the ASG-29 is not an ASW-27 with long tips. It has changes to the airfoil, the wing fuselage junction, rudder and mixer. Sure it is based on the ASW-27 but it is a different glider, even in 15 meter configuration it has a different wing area than a 27.

In no way does Schleicher rest on their laurels, which why they have a history of winners in 15 meter, 18 meter and open. The new turbo ASG-29Es,, is the first with a starter. While Jonkers and Lange are and were a welcome addition in technology and competition both the Schleicher and Schempp factory continue to make great gliders that push the limits of production/design/ while still being a viable business.

On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 11:00:06 AM UTC-8, Gliding Guru wrote:
Don't get me wrong - The ASG 29 is a great glider but its basically already
a 20 year old design. It's really just a 27 with some extra long tips.

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 9:49:49 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
...the ASG-29 is not an ASW-27 with long tips...

Is that so? What does the paperwork say it is?

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 10:16:20 AM UTC-7, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 9:49:49 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
...the ASG-29 is not an ASW-27 with long tips...

Is that so? What does the paperwork say it is?

Well and Bell Long Ranger B 206L is certified on the Bell Jet ranger cert B206B, but it is a different aircraft 36 inches longer, different engine, main rotor blades, tail boom, tail rotor blades...etc. Just because the type cert for an ASG-29 says ASW-27-18, does not mean it is the same, there are substantial differences.

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 1:28:41 PM UTC-4, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 10:16:20 AM UTC-7, Bob Kuykendall wrote:
On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 9:49:49 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
...the ASG-29 is not an ASW-27 with long tips...

Is that so? What does the paperwork say it is?

Well and Bell Long Ranger B 206L is certified on the Bell Jet ranger cert B206B, but it is a different aircraft 36 inches longer, different engine, main rotor blades, tail boom, tail rotor blades...etc. Just because the type cert for an ASG-29 says ASW-27-18, does not mean it is the same, there are substantial differences.

Cow piles! Regardless of what you or anyone else wants to call it, an aircraft is whatever the placard and/or legal paper work says it is. Next time you are around an ASG-29, go look at the placard.

Benson so much negativity, namaste. Logic might not be your forte, but an ASW-27-18 is an ASG-29, which is not an ASW-27.

An ASG-29 at 15 meters even has different wing area than 15 meter ASW-27 and is about 80 lbs heavier. Just because the 29 was certified under the same type cert does not mean there were not meaningful differences, wing root, tweaks to airfoil, wing span, mixer control, composite layup schedule, wing spar etc. Hence the different designation ASW-27 vs ASW27-18. And these changes were made by a different designer who had different ideas about what was needed to make this glider a winner at 18 meters.

As for cow piles, that comment usually stops the exchange of information and signals you are closed for any further exchange, I guess you already know everything, congratulations. You must be in a continually blissful state.


On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 11:47:18 AM UTC-7, wrote:
Cow piles! Regardless of what you or anyone else wants to call it, an aircraft is whatever the placard and/or legal paper work says it is. Next time you are around an ASG-29, go look at the placard.

On Friday, July 3, 2015 at 9:49:49 AM UTC-7, Jonathan St. Cloud wrote:
I know this post is 6 months old, but the ASG-29 is not an ASW-27 with long tips. It has changes to the airfoil, the wing fuselage junction, rudder and mixer. Sure it is based on the ASW-27 but it is a different glider, even in 15 meter configuration it has a different wing area than a 27.

In no way does Schleicher rest on their laurels, which why they have a history of winners in 15 meter, 18 meter and open. The new turbo ASG-29Es,, is the first with a starter. While Jonkers and Lange are and were a welcome addition in technology and competition both the Schleicher and Schempp factory continue to make great gliders that push the limits of production/design/ while still being a viable business.

On Wednesday, January 28, 2015 at 11:00:06 AM UTC-8, Gliding Guru wrote:
Don't get me wrong - The ASG 29 is a great glider but its basically already
a 20 year old design. It's really just a 27 with some extra long tips.


My -27 has been parked next to a -29 all week at Nephi. We've flown together all week - we are both flying with 15-meter tips ;-). The -29 has a slightly different taper break to accommodate the 18-meter tips/span so the tip chord doesn't get too small.This necessitated going from the two-taper planform of the -27 to a three-taper planform even is 15-meter configuration on the -29. I'm sure there was some tweaking of the airfoil to accompany the changes in taper. The rudder has a slightly longer chord to go with the longer span in 18-meter configuration. The fuselage sure looks identical and I can't pick up any differences in how the flaps and ailerons function - it's the usual Schleicher arrangement. I expect the certification authorities allow a number of minor modifications to a design to still qualify as a derivative, which saves a lot on certification for the things that didn't change.

9B