The highly successful UK Junior XC program vs. USA's nonexistantJunior XC program. Why?

To be clear, we should fly over a "British Gliding Association"(BGA) representative who is intimate with their Junior Development Program to the upcoming SSA convention. He/She/They should be presenting on Day 1 at 9am and the session should be standing room only...

What they are doing in Britain should be carefully studied by all of us.

What is a higher priority?

Sean
7T

It's been a long time since I was a junior (I'm 64, having started flying at 14), but I'm not sure how appealing a small Junior Nationals would have been for me at the time. One of the most thrilling experiences of my early soaring career was my first contest when I was 17: the Central Ohio Soaring Association's Annual Fall Roundup one weekend in September 1968. My father brought his Diamant HBV and we also trailered our 1-26. One of the attractions was flying with the "big boys": e.g., AJ Smith, Rudy Mozer, and other fine pilots I'd known about for years.

An even bigger thrill was my first nationals, the 1976 15M Nats in Bryan, OH (the first 15M contest), in which I flew our Libelle 201. I'm not sure whether there were other juniors at the 1968 contest but I know of at least one other at the 1976 Nats: Eric Mozer (he was 22 then but I was actually 25). True, by that time I had flown enough regionals to feel comfortable tilting with the top pilots but I measured myself against Eric's performance each day there not particularly because he was a junior, but because by then he was already winning days and on his way to winning his first nationals not long after. And, of course, a young Tommy Beltz was already on his way at that point, as well.

Going to a juniors contest might have been fun, but more because of the social aspects, the mutual support, and what I could hopefully learn. In its proposed form at Ionia--i.e., acknowledging that most of those participating will likely be fairly new to competition--I think I would have viewed a junior nats almost as a camp, not a real contest.

That's not to say there's anything wrong with that concept, only that others have proposed modifications to the idea that would enhance its value as a camp: e.g., dual instruction in high-performance two-seaters from experienced pilots, classroom sessions, detailed debriefs.

Like Sean, some of the best experiences of my life have been in soaring. I was extremely fortunate that my father was an instructor, competition pilot, glider owner, and strong supporter of my flying, and that we lived near what is now the Caesar Creek Soaring Club, surely one of the country's most vibrant soaring organizations. I've also been fortunate to visit or fly with Harris Hill Soaring Club, Valley Soaring, and the Blairstown folks, three of the strongest groups for juniors. I don't have any new answers as to how to encourage more junior participation in cross country and contests. I do know I would have given almost anything to be able to ride around in the back seat with someone like Karl Striedieck on a contest task back then. Heck, I still would, but that would mean giving up a day in one of the few contests I can fly now.

Good luck with the proposed Junior Nats. If you've already received feedback from a good cross section of junior pilots and this is the result, just ignore my dated response. If not, it would probably be worth surveying the juniors we already have to see what they would like in a dedicated contest, event, or sub-class in a larger contest. As with any other "minority", it's dangerous to presume that we older white males have any insight into what others really want.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Good stuff Chip! I agree.

Where is the SSA on this topic?

Crickets.........

On Friday, October 2, 2015 at 3:15:23 PM UTC-4, Sean Fidler wrote:
Good stuff Chip! I agree.

Where is the SSA on this topic?

Crickets.........

With what Chip said the path forward is easy. Put a Junior in your glider, crew for, and coach them through regular contests. Simple. No need for SSA to do anything.

In case you haven't already go to youtube and search UK Junior Gliding TV to see what Sean is talking about here. Those kids are having an amazing good time. I enjoyed putsing around with the old guys when I was a kid but given the choice any teenager would rather have the kind of fun the Brittish Junior Team is having.
Heck, I want to go hang out with them myself!

Those kids are having an amazing good time. I enjoyed putsing around with the old guys when I was a kid but given the choice any teenager would rather have the kind of fun the Brittish Junior Team is having.
Heck, I want to go hang out with them myself!

It's not that I enjoyed "putzing around with the old guys" per se. Some things don't change. I just wanted to fly against them in competition. Spending time and money to tilt against a handful of barely post-solo juniors wouldn't have been as attractive once I got past that stage myself.

On the other hand, the stuff on the UK Junior Gliding TV videos looks marvelous! Yes, yes, yes, in a minute. But doing grass-level, high-speed passes in a modern glider at the Junior World Championship before dancing the night away isn't quite what one is likely to encounter at Ionia next summer.

Of course, you have to start somewhere, and--as Sean has pointed out--the UK Junior experience is a great goal. So if, after polling the juniors, there's enough interest in the proposed event, then by all means go for it. I was just expressing what my views were at the time, a far different time by someone who was in the ideal position to benefit from my father and a good club.

And it was a time, as now, when there just weren't very many junior pilots. Perhaps a good question would be: How many of today's competition pilots started flying gliders as juniors? I know of quite a few: Eric Mozer, Erik Nelson, Erik Mann (hey, there's a theme, here!), Sean Fidler, Sean Franke (another theme), Tommy Beltz, Hank Nixon, Roy McMaster (I believe), Garret and Boyd Willet, John Seymour, Chris Woods, Andy Blackburn, Rick Indrebo, Dave Mockler, Danny Sorenson, Mitch Hudson, and I'm sure I'm forgetting some plus leaving out others I don't know. I think most, though certainly not all, of these pilots had a family connection: a father or other family member who was already involved in soaring. Trying to duplicate that may be a way to grow our base but I suspect we're looking for more than this.

It's probably no accident that two guys on this list who got into soaring based on their own strong interest--Hank Nixon and Erik Mann--have been leaders in encouraging cross country, competition, and junior soaring for many years in my part of the country...and can probably speak much more knowledgeably about what it takes to promote junior soaring than I can.

Chip Bearden
ASW 24 "JB"
U.S.A.

Hi All,

We are pleased to see that UK Junior Gliding has been well received.

I think the biggest thing we have tried to achieve is a sense of community
- even in the UK, distances make it difficult to hold regular events and
for friends to meet up. Social media has been key to this, alongside a few
organised weekend events. Once you create a nationwide friend group, who
want to make the effort to travel then half the battle is won. It doesn't
happen overnight, but once the foundations are laid, it continues to grow.

We use facebook / youtube to keep things light-hearted, informative and
competitive. We all know gliding is an awesome sport, but sometimes the
rules and regulations get in the way of that. We have focussed a lot of
energy on displaying the true image of gliding.

Needless to say, we are greatly assisted by non-Juniors. At our "Winter
Series" (over 80 Junior entries) we have private owners bringing their
2-seaters and flying Juniors, helping with the launching, and generally
showing support to the future of the sport. It is key to the current
success of UKJG and great to see. We want to create a culture of giving
back, its the only way to sustainably grow a Junior scene.

This only scratches the surface.

If a Junior development group is set up Stateside, we would be more than
happy to offer our advice / experiences where possible.

Feel free to fire us an email at or message us
through the facebook page www.facebook.com/ukjuniorgliding.

Cheers
Charlie Jordan, Steve Pozerskis, Matt Davis

On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 5:40:06 PM UTC-4, wrote:
Let me suggest that you take a longer term approach to a Junior Nationals like a 5 year or 10 year time frame. Even though our club has 35 Juniors, there's just one I know of that could participate in a Junior Nationals this year. If he's busy during that time, we'd send zero. I suspect other clubs would be in the same boat.

Why don't you consider a Junior XC soaring event as a way to prime the pump for a nationals that follow a year or two later? For example, every two years, we take our Juniors to Mifflin -any skill level, and bring several gliders and instructors. We fly 2-33's, 1-26's ASK-21's and Duo Discus and our Discus CS. We camp on the airport for several days and give the kids a chance to fly at a different airport, experience XC ridge soaring and so on. They absolutely love it.

You could do the same. Arrange to have several XC instructors and aircraft come to a location (perhaps an East and a West event would be best due to distance). The intent of the session should be to stimulate interest in cross country flying for Juniors of varying skill levels. You can bracket the kids and have a few fly competitively while others learn XC. Start small, limit attendance -perhaps to those who have soloed or have a private pilot certificate and see how it goes. Do something crazy like vette them online using Condor ahead of time.

Keep in mind that whatever you do, it needs to be a parent friendly event.. Younger Juniors don't have transportation and for those who do, today's parents aren't going to hand them the keys to SUV with a glider on the back and wave goodbye as they head cross country for the event. Kids are far more controlled and protected than you and I were at their age and even at age 18 and older. Giving parents a chance to help out or do something with their kids while there and making it a turnkey event with gliders to fly and instructors to help out will be important.

A year or two of an event like that should give you a much better idea of how to stimulate Junior XC interests.

We're beginning to lay the ground work for 2016 in R2/R3. Since R2N at Wurtsboro will be replaced by the Club Nationals our common venue for newbie 2 seat flying will need to move for 2016.
I'm sure Dansville will be stepping up with R3 in August. I'm planning on bringing K21 with my 2 hottest juniors from '14, and maybe one more. I hear P3 is looking at bringing Ethan and the Grob. Hopefully we can get Harris Hill to bring a 21 or 2 with some juniors. I'ts only 50 miles away. Dansville has a '21 and some live juniors.
We should be able to get enough for a Bus Class.
If we do a bit of organizing, I expect we could have 10-12 newbies at that event, most of them Juniors.
This is pretty much like what we have been doing, but by making it closer to Elmira maybe we can suck them in.
UH
UH

At 21:22 06 October 2015, wrote:
On Wednesday, September 30, 2015 at 5:40:06 PM UTC-4,
wr=
ote:
Let me suggest that you take a longer term approach to a Junior
Nationals=
like a 5 year or 10 year time frame. Even though our club has 35
Juniors,=
there's just one I know of that could participate in a Junior Nationals
th=
is year. If he's busy during that time, we'd send zero. I suspect other
c=
lubs would be in the same boat.
=20
Why don't you consider a Junior XC soaring event as a way to prime the
pu=
mp for a nationals that follow a year or two later? For example, every
two=
years, we take our Juniors to Mifflin -any skill level, and bring
several
=
gliders and instructors. We fly 2-33's, 1-26's ASK-21's and Duo Discus
and=
our Discus CS. We camp on the airport for several days and give the
kids
=
a chance to fly at a different airport, experience XC ridge soaring and
so
=
on. They absolutely love it.
=20
You could do the same. Arrange to have several XC instructors and
aircra=
ft come to a location (perhaps an East and a West event would be best due
t=
o distance). The intent of the session should be to stimulate interest
in
=
cross country flying for Juniors of varying skill levels. You can
bracket
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the kids and have a few fly competitively while others learn XC. Start
smal=
l, limit attendance -perhaps to those who have soloed or have a private
pil=
ot certificate and see how it goes. Do something crazy like vette them
onl=
ine using Condor ahead of time.
=20
Keep in mind that whatever you do, it needs to be a parent friendly
event=
.. Younger Juniors don't have transportation and for those who do,
today's
=
parents aren't going to hand them the keys to SUV with a glider on the
back=
and wave goodbye as they head cross country for the event. Kids are far
m=
ore controlled and protected than you and I were at their age and even at
a=
ge 18 and older. Giving parents a chance to help out or do something
with
=
their kids while there and making it a turnkey event with gliders to fly
an=
d instructors to help out will be important.
=20
A year or two of an event like that should give you a much better idea
of=
how to stimulate Junior XC interests.

We're beginning to lay the ground work for 2016 in R2/R3. Since R2N at
Wurt=
sboro will be replaced by the Club Nationals our common venue for newbie
2
=
seat flying will need to move for 2016.
I'm sure Dansville will be stepping up with R3 in August. I'm planning on
b=
ringing K21 with my 2 hottest juniors from '14, and maybe one more. I
hear
=
P3 is looking at bringing Ethan and the Grob. Hopefully we can get Harris
H=
ill to bring a 21 or 2 with some juniors. I'ts only 50 miles away.
Dansvill=
e has a '21 and some live juniors.=20
We should be able to get enough for a Bus Class.
If we do a bit of organizing, I expect we could have 10-12 newbies at
that
=
event, most of them Juniors.=20
This is pretty much like what we have been doing, but by making it closer
t=
o Elmira maybe we can suck them in.
UH
UH
The junior comments

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Huge thanks to Sutton Bank for hosting the latest round of the Winter
Series. A very warm welcome, friendly club members and a stunning view
from the top of the ridge!!!

Despite the pretty average weather forecast around 60 Juniors plus
another
20 more senior pilots headed to YGC for the weekend.

A mixture of ridge/wave followed with 75 aerotows across the weekend and
a
pretty hefty bar bill as well!

Thank you to those that dragged 2 seaters up to help us out. As ever, we
cannot do it without you!

We will return to the Long Mynd in early February. If anyone is
interested
in bringing a 2 seater along please let us know.

Cheers

UK Junior Gliding Development Team

Meanwhile in the USA?..............