AOPA talking rubbish

Read the following in the February edition of AOPA magazine by Thomas Haines
the editor in chief.

"General aviation of the future may look like that in Europe today -
where user fees have existed for years. There only the ultrawealthy fly
anything. The wealthy fly microlights and non of them enjoy the robust
infrastructure that we enjoy in this country."

If ever the cause against user fees gets undermined it is by rubbish like
this being written by so called intelligent people.

European GA is full of ordinary people who love flying, sure it is expensive
(gas at $9 a gallon) but I defy anyone to say that they don't have to make
some sacrifices somewhere to fund their flying especially if you have a
family.

As for the robust infrastructure - well for the most part we don't need it.
Enough people on this forum say FSS is a waste of time and money.

Go to any car park at a local airfield and you will see a range of cars from
the smart to the beat up testifying to the breath of people who fly. Same
here in Europe.

To say that flying in Europe is only for the ultra wealthy is not only
wrong, it is silly.

Has the user fees debate got to the stage of throwing out such crass
propaganda? Is there a need to tell such lies?

Do you guys believe it?

On Feb 18, 6:00 pm, "Chris" wrote:
Read the following in the February edition of AOPA magazine by Thomas Haines
the editor in chief.

"General aviation of the future may look like that in Europe today -
where user fees have existed for years. There only the ultrawealthy fly
anything. The wealthy fly microlights and non of them enjoy the robust
infrastructure that we enjoy in this country."

If ever the cause against user fees gets undermined it is by rubbish like
this being written by so called intelligent people.

European GA is full of ordinary people who love flying, sure it is expensive
(gas at $9 a gallon) but I defy anyone to say that they don't have to make
some sacrifices somewhere to fund their flying especially if you have a
family.

As for the robust infrastructure - well for the most part we don't need it.
Enough people on this forum say FSS is a waste of time and money.

Go to any car park at a local airfield and you will see a range of cars from
the smart to the beat up testifying to the breath of people who fly. Same
here in Europe.

To say that flying in Europe is only for the ultra wealthy is not only
wrong, it is silly.

Has the user fees debate got to the stage of throwing out such crass
propaganda? Is there a need to tell such lies?

Do you guys believe it?

I have never flown in Europe, so I can't challenge what you are
saying. However, I do occasionally fly with pilots visiting the U.S.
from Europe. They were all very wealthy businessmen, and every one of
them expressed amazement at the low cost of flying here. I took one
pilot into a Class C airport and did several touch and goes, and he
could not stop talking about it for days about how those landing would
have cost him hundreds of dollars in Germany.

Even in the U.S. the cost of flying has been going up faster than
inflation. Most pilots here are from an above-average income. Once I
had a student who worked at a fast food restaurant and walked to the
airport because he did not own a car, but those are exceptions.

If flying is not so bad in Europe, why do we have so many schools in
the U.S. that cater to European pilots, and even European airlines run
their training programs in the U.S?

On Feb 18, 7:24 pm, "Andrew Sarangan" wrote:
Even in the U.S. the cost of flying has been going up faster than
inflation. Most pilots here are from an above-average income. [...]

Well, unless they're CFI's ;-]

Kev

In a previous article, "Andrew Sarangan" said:
If flying is not so bad in Europe, why do we have so many schools in
the U.S. that cater to European pilots, and even European airlines run
their training programs in the U.S?

Because they haven't finished moving all their training programs to
Canada, where flying is almost as cheap and they don't have to deal with
insane TSA regulations.

--
Paul Tomblin http://blog.xcski.com/
....I've discovered the one thing worse than people who open attachments
from people they don't know. People who delete files when instructed
by people they don't know. -- Michael

Chris wrote:
Read the following in the February edition of AOPA magazine by Thomas Haines
the editor in chief.

"General aviation of the future may look like that in Europe today -
where user fees have existed for years. There only the ultrawealthy fly
anything. The wealthy fly microlights and non of them enjoy the robust
infrastructure that we enjoy in this country."

If ever the cause against user fees gets undermined it is by rubbish like
this being written by so called intelligent people.

European GA is full of ordinary people who love flying, sure it is expensive
(gas at $9 a gallon) but I defy anyone to say that they don't have to make
some sacrifices somewhere to fund their flying especially if you have a
family.

As for the robust infrastructure - well for the most part we don't need it.
Enough people on this forum say FSS is a waste of time and money.

Go to any car park at a local airfield and you will see a range of cars from
the smart to the beat up testifying to the breath of people who fly. Same
here in Europe.

To say that flying in Europe is only for the ultra wealthy is not only
wrong, it is silly.

Has the user fees debate got to the stage of throwing out such crass
propaganda? Is there a need to tell such lies?

Do you guys believe it?

What is the percentage of pilots in major European countries? How does
that compare to the US? Do you have any data to refute the AOPA comments?

I lived in England for several months back in the mid 80s and it didn't
appear to me that GA hardly existed compared to the US. And the folks I
worked with in the plant thought I must be pretty wealthy when I told
them I was a pilot.

Matt

On Feb 18, 5:00 pm, "Chris" wrote:
Has the user fees debate got to the stage of throwing out such crass
propaganda? Is there a need to tell such lies?

Do you guys believe it?

Well, let's see here...

Fuel at $9/hr with about 8 gph fuel burn = $72
On top of the crazy taxes, landing fees, weather briefing fees,
testing fees, and whatever else they have - I'd say AOPA has a pretty
strong argument.

My Mom lives in Holland. When she tells people her son is a pilot,
they tell her I must be rich (I wish).

"Chris" wrote in message ...
: Read the following in the February edition of AOPA magazine by Thomas Haines
: the editor in chief.
:
:snip

: Has the user fees debate got to the stage of throwing out such crass
: propaganda? Is there a need to tell such lies?
:
: Do you guys believe it?
:
:

Sure I believe it, not lies. I have a C-172A in the hanger on my property at our airpark. I don't have to talk to anyone
or even pay any av-gas taxes because the plane flies using auto gas. If I want to travel to California I can file a
flight plan and go anytime and just about anyplace. This is definitely one of the amazing freedoms in the good ol' USA.

Car gas costs 2.25 right now, and I burn about 9 gallons / hour. My annuals cost maybe 1 amu per year (knock wood!). Do
the math, it is really not too bad...

"Chris" == Chris writes:

Chris To say that flying in Europe is only for the ultra wealthy
Chris is not only wrong, it is silly.

A few years ago I was able to fly in France for a bit from a club in a
small town. At that time I estimated the hourly cost to be about
double what I would pay in the US. So certainly more expensive, but
not so only the ultra wealthy can fly.
--
Children need encouragement. If a kid gets an answer right, tell
him it was a lucky guess. That way he develops a good, lucky
feeling.
- Jack Handey

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 18:00:42 -0800, Matt Whiting wrote
(in article ):

Chris wrote:
Read the following in the February edition of AOPA magazine by Thomas
Haines
the editor in chief.

"General aviation of the future may look like that in Europe today -
where user fees have existed for years. There only the ultrawealthy fly
anything. The wealthy fly microlights and non of them enjoy the robust
infrastructure that we enjoy in this country."

If ever the cause against user fees gets undermined it is by rubbish like
this being written by so called intelligent people.

European GA is full of ordinary people who love flying, sure it is
expensive
(gas at $9 a gallon) but I defy anyone to say that they don't have to make
some sacrifices somewhere to fund their flying especially if you have a
family.

As for the robust infrastructure - well for the most part we don't need it.
Enough people on this forum say FSS is a waste of time and money.

Go to any car park at a local airfield and you will see a range of cars
from
the smart to the beat up testifying to the breath of people who fly. Same
here in Europe.

To say that flying in Europe is only for the ultra wealthy is not only
wrong, it is silly.

Has the user fees debate got to the stage of throwing out such crass
propaganda? Is there a need to tell such lies?

Do you guys believe it?

What is the percentage of pilots in major European countries? How does
that compare to the US? Do you have any data to refute the AOPA comments?

I lived in England for several months back in the mid 80s and it didn't
appear to me that GA hardly existed compared to the US. And the folks I
worked with in the plant thought I must be pretty wealthy when I told
them I was a pilot.

Matt

I remember reading somewhere that there were more active pilots in Orange
County in California than in all of Europe. But I can't remember where it
was. Anyone remember that article?

--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Sun, 18 Feb 2007 15:00:39 -0800, Chris wrote
(in article ):

Read the following in the February edition of AOPA magazine by Thomas Haines
the editor in chief.

"General aviation of the future may look like that in Europe today -
where user fees have existed for years. There only the ultrawealthy fly
anything. The wealthy fly microlights and non of them enjoy the robust
infrastructure that we enjoy in this country."

Near as I can tell it is true. Training European pilots is a major industry
in this country because it is too expensive to learn in Europe. So you have
to go to the US to build enough time to get hired, or you go to Lufthansa,
which trains pilots from the ground up.

As you said, gasoline alone is $9 a gallon. That would price a lot of
American pilots right out of the market. So would European user fees. So I do
not understand where you say that user fees would not make it too expensive
to fly. I don't know about Europeans, but one should not have to sacrifice
everything else just so some greedy government officials can grab more of
your money, whether it is for flying or not. Your suggestion that people
should just sacrifice more is heartless and wrong-headed. We would like to
see government officials sacrifice a little.

The infrastructure is a lot more than FSS -- and by the way, try flying in
Mexico if you want to see what it is like to fly where weather reporting is
inadequate, airports are not maintained, and other services are nil. Or go to
Argentina and try paying $300 landing fees every time you fly.




--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor