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#11
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Comair Pilot Error
"Andrew Sarangan" wrote in message oups.com... I am getting tired of comments like "controller should have warned the pilots", or "taxiway was confusing", or "runway lights were off" etc.. One could not find a better example of a pure and simple pilot error. The runway was clear, the weather was VFR, and the airplane was working fine. It is highly likely that this was the only airplane maneuvering at the airport. Even if the controller had cleared him to takeoff on runway 26, the responsibility would have been on the pilot to decline that clearance. Yet, a perfectly good airplane was run off the runway and ploughed into the woods. NTSB is investigating whether the pilots had coffee that morning, and how much sleep they got. This is a futile exercise. Taxiing and departing from a relatively quiet airport under VFR conditions is an extremely low workload situation. We are not talking about shooting a non-precision approach to minimums in a thunderstorm after a full day of flying. A pilot should be able to do this even if he had partied all night at the bar. What happened was gross negligence. I shudder to think that my wife and baby flew the Comair CRJ only a few days prior to this accident. Fortunately they are flying back with me in our trusty GA airplane. I feel a lot better about it than trusting my family to stupid mistakes that even my students pilots know how to avoid. I sincerely feel for those who lost loved ones. They have the right be very angry. I am angry, and I did not lose anything. I have a question. I will say right off of the bat that I do not have any pilot ratings, but I do have A&P ratings, so I am somewhat familiar with FAR's. I am unfamiliar with any SOP's. 1. Is the ATC responsible for making sure the aircraft is on the correct runway? 2. Aren't there check's that are made from inside the cockpit to assure they are on the correct runway? 3. Looking at the two runways using google earth, it looks as though the actual pavement is the same width on both runways in question, but all of the documents that I have seen show a 75 ft and a 150 ft runway. Why is this? Someone mentioned the 75 ft runway is actually 150 ft wide, but the markings make it 75 ft usable. Why would that be? Thanks for your answers... --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0635-1, 08/28/2006 Tested on: 8/29/2006 7:34:06 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
#12
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Comair Pilot Error
No matter how you cut this one, pilot error is seriously indicated by the
simple fact that the takeoff roll was started on the runway not assigned to them. And the wrong runway for their aircraft regardless of what they were assigned. Ron Lee |
#13
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Comair Pilot Error
3. Looking at the two runways using google earth, it looks as though the
actual pavement is the same width on both runways in question, but all of the documents that I have seen show a 75 ft and a 150 ft runway. Why is this? Someone mentioned the 75 ft runway is actually 150 ft wide, but the markings make it 75 ft usable. Why would that be? Look closely at a picture of Rwy 26 and you will see solid (white?) lines either side of the centerline that are probably 75 feet apart. Ron Lee |
#14
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Comair Pilot Error
"Ron Lee" wrote in message ... 3. Looking at the two runways using google earth, it looks as though the actual pavement is the same width on both runways in question, but all of the documents that I have seen show a 75 ft and a 150 ft runway. Why is this? Someone mentioned the 75 ft runway is actually 150 ft wide, but the markings make it 75 ft usable. Why would that be? Look closely at a picture of Rwy 26 and you will see solid (white?) lines either side of the centerline that are probably 75 feet apart. OK... But what I don't understand is why would they have two runways that are the same surface width, but it is listed as a 75 ft runway they way it is marked? It seems to me that if they are the same surface width, they would mark both of them the same usable width. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0635-1, 08/28/2006 Tested on: 8/29/2006 8:02:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com |
#15
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Comair Pilot Error
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#16
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Comair Pilot Error
Peter Duniho wrote:
You have never made a single mistake, ever, while flying an airplane? Apples and oranges, IMO. One cannot compare the skills of GA pilots to those of professional pilots, given the level of training, recurring certification, and proficiency professional pilots maintain. Therefore, one cannot compare the mistakes of GA pilots to those of professional pilots. -- Peter |
#17
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Comair Pilot Error
C. Massey schrieb:
OK... But what I don't understand is why would they have two runways that are the same surface width, but it is listed as a 75 ft runway they way it is marked? It seems to me that if they are the same surface width, they would mark both of them the same usable width. Look again at the Google image. The surface of rwy 26 is in a poor state. Maybe it's even poorer outside the markings. And before you ask why it is not better maintained: It costs money. Stefan |
#18
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Comair Pilot Error
"C. Massey" wrote:
1. Is the ATC responsible for making sure the aircraft is on the correct runway? No, the pilot in command is the final authority for the safety of the flight. A pilot has the authority to disregard an ATC instruction if the pilot believes that this instruction will put the aircraft in harm's way. Among the many other responsibilities, ATC does serve as a "check and balance" of sorts, but for some reason this check did not occur on that morning. 2. Aren't there check's that are made from inside the cockpit to assure they are on the correct runway? Yes there are. However, I am not a professional pilot so I am unaware if airlines have written procedures dealing with this. I suspect they do. In the GA world we would compare the directional gyro, compass, or HSI to the known runway heading before departing. 3. Looking at the two runways using google earth, it looks as though the actual pavement is the same width on both runways in question, but all of the documents that I have seen show a 75 ft and a 150 ft runway. Why is this? Someone mentioned the 75 ft runway is actually 150 ft wide, but the markings make it 75 ft usable. Why would that be? Unknown by me, but perhaps the airport purposely did this to assure a distinction between the smaller runway and the larger one. -- Peter |
#19
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Comair Pilot Error
I don't "know", so pure speculation on my part, but maybe they were trying
to create another visual clue to help prevent this exact type of accident. "C. Massey" wrote in message ... OK... But what I don't understand is why would they have two runways that are the same surface width, but it is listed as a 75 ft runway they way it is marked? It seems to me that if they are the same surface width, they would mark both of them the same usable width. |
#20
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Comair Pilot Error
C. Massey wrote:
"Ron Lee" wrote in message ... 3. Looking at the two runways using google earth, it looks as though the actual pavement is the same width on both runways in question, but all of the documents that I have seen show a 75 ft and a 150 ft runway. Why is this? Someone mentioned the 75 ft runway is actually 150 ft wide, but the markings make it 75 ft usable. Why would that be? Look closely at a picture of Rwy 26 and you will see solid (white?) lines either side of the centerline that are probably 75 feet apart. OK... But what I don't understand is why would they have two runways that are the same surface width, but it is listed as a 75 ft runway they way it is marked? It seems to me that if they are the same surface width, they would mark both of them the same usable width. --- avast! Antivirus: Outbound message clean. Virus Database (VPS): 0635-1, 08/28/2006 Tested on: 8/29/2006 8:02:18 AM avast! - copyright (c) 1988-2006 ALWIL Software. http://www.avast.com It's probable a money issue. Marking the GA runway as 75 feet wide means you only plow & maintain the inside 75 feet. I've seen other reports that say the runway was cracked and in poor condition. I guessing that they just did not have enough money for the full width maintenance. Also, for a 3500 foot runway 75 is more then enough. Looking at a aerial shot it appears there is also a unused runway at 33 ( or so ) Both of these runways appear to be ~3500 long and 150 wide. The width vs length does not appear to work out. Was this a former military base? Maybe for helicopters? I would not be surprise to see that the military would build a short wide runway for helos. |
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