What to buy...what to buy?

Okay, I always love reading everyone's thoughts on these types of questions
so I'll post one for myself. Well, my wife finally gave me thumbs up to buy
a plane after taking a 6-year break from flying. [We all know the
story...two kids, wife staying home, private school...or some flavor of this
story.] Well, I'm pretty conservative and worry about losing my job, etc.
But darn it, it is about time to pull the trigger and get some wings. I'm
planning on taking my time 18 - 24 months to make a purchase. Once I narrow
down my model types I've got a lot of research and networking to do.



For my cyber friends, here are the base assumptions for your assignment:



$40,000 US cash in airplane fund.

ASEL VFR.

IFR training isn't out of the question but not a priority. I really enjoy
old school flying.



I live in SoCal. Tie-downs are minimum $100 per month but the weather is
good. I'm near the coast so I do suffer from marine layer moisture though.
Hangars, if one can be had, lucky find would be $400, many $800+ ...yeah,
that's a t-hanger. Go ahead and laugh most of you. I'm thinking that this
bird will be parked outside, covered from separate expense funds.



I want to start with $5000 - $7000 in reserve. I don't plan on putting away
a little each flight. It seems easier for me to hit problems in big chunks.
My accountant (wife) seems to hit me just as hard for $100 discretions as
she does with $2000 discretions. It's an event thing not a cash thing. Of
course I will embezzle every nickel I can to minimize the number of known
discretions. Not easy with an accountant for a wife. [I think that she
plays dumb because she must have some offshore accounts that I don't know
about.]



All of my training and most flying has been in Citabrias. I LOVE
taildraggers and I LOVE sticks. I have some time in Piper Archers. I have
some time in a PT-23 which was heaven on earth.or above it. Experimental or
Certified makes no difference to me. BUT, I want a certified engine-call me
chicken.



When I was flying, a lot of the time was spent alone but, everybody waves me
off of single seat aircraft. Having two sons, I'm thinking that two seats
minimum is required. Thoughts of getting the whole family into the plane
are unlikely.



I am 205 lbs. Most of my friends are 200+ lbs. Boy, Americans are fat.
Airplane must be comfortable for two adults.



I was enjoying aerobatic flying and beginning formation flying. Aerobatic
is optional. Typical mission will be the local lunch run and weekend trips.
I don't know of much backcountry flying in SoCal but camping under the wing
and fishing with my son would be a great way to spend time. See...Citabrias
seem to fit my mission pretty well.



I am all over the map on this and would love to hear your thoughts. Engine
needs to have reasonable time left on it...800 hrs+ TBO. I will probably
fly 300+ hours per year. God Bless Southern California.



Here is one candidate that I came up with:

Luscombe 8

+Taildragger

+Sticks

+2 or more Seats

+Inexpensive to Operate

+Should be good on dirt

-Low on power

-Low on speed

-Very light wing loading



Purchase Cost $30,000

Pre-buy $1,500

SQUAK $1000

Reserve $6,000

1st Insurance $1,000
----------------------------------
Subtotal $39,500
Flowers, Dinner, etc $500
----------------------------------
Grand Total $40,000

Feel free to deviate from some of my criteria. Other planes on my radar
include CITABRIA, SWIFT, RV, Maule, Grumman AA5, Navion, etc. but most of
these are out of my price range unless they are basket cases.

Think about it, I want some good answers.

what do you want to do with that plane..

grass fields? camping? take the family cross country?

Husky? Super Cub? Fixed Gear Piper? Bonanza? 1 seat? 2 seat? 4 seat?

need to know the "mission" to get the proper "equipment"

BT

"Carl J. Hixon" wrote in message
news:shCid.100753$hj.51722@fed1read07...
Okay, I always love reading everyone's thoughts on these types of
questions
so I'll post one for myself. Well, my wife finally gave me thumbs up to
buy
a plane after taking a 6-year break from flying. [We all know the
story...two kids, wife staying home, private school...or some flavor of
this
story.] Well, I'm pretty conservative and worry about losing my job, etc.
But darn it, it is about time to pull the trigger and get some wings. I'm
planning on taking my time 18 - 24 months to make a purchase. Once I
narrow
down my model types I've got a lot of research and networking to do.



For my cyber friends, here are the base assumptions for your assignment:



$40,000 US cash in airplane fund.

ASEL VFR.

IFR training isn't out of the question but not a priority. I really enjoy
old school flying.



I live in SoCal. Tie-downs are minimum $100 per month but the weather is
good. I'm near the coast so I do suffer from marine layer moisture
though.
Hangars, if one can be had, lucky find would be $400, many $800+ ...yeah,
that's a t-hanger. Go ahead and laugh most of you. I'm thinking that
this
bird will be parked outside, covered from separate expense funds.



I want to start with $5000 - $7000 in reserve. I don't plan on putting
away
a little each flight. It seems easier for me to hit problems in big
chunks.
My accountant (wife) seems to hit me just as hard for $100 discretions as
she does with $2000 discretions. It's an event thing not a cash thing.
Of
course I will embezzle every nickel I can to minimize the number of known
discretions. Not easy with an accountant for a wife. [I think that she
plays dumb because she must have some offshore accounts that I don't know
about.]



All of my training and most flying has been in Citabrias. I LOVE
taildraggers and I LOVE sticks. I have some time in Piper Archers. I
have
some time in a PT-23 which was heaven on earth.or above it. Experimental
or
Certified makes no difference to me. BUT, I want a certified engine-call
me
chicken.



When I was flying, a lot of the time was spent alone but, everybody waves
me
off of single seat aircraft. Having two sons, I'm thinking that two seats
minimum is required. Thoughts of getting the whole family into the plane
are unlikely.



I am 205 lbs. Most of my friends are 200+ lbs. Boy, Americans are fat.
Airplane must be comfortable for two adults.



I was enjoying aerobatic flying and beginning formation flying. Aerobatic
is optional. Typical mission will be the local lunch run and weekend
trips.
I don't know of much backcountry flying in SoCal but camping under the
wing
and fishing with my son would be a great way to spend time.
See...Citabrias
seem to fit my mission pretty well.



I am all over the map on this and would love to hear your thoughts.
Engine
needs to have reasonable time left on it...800 hrs+ TBO. I will probably
fly 300+ hours per year. God Bless Southern California.



Here is one candidate that I came up with:

Luscombe 8

+Taildragger

+Sticks

+2 or more Seats

+Inexpensive to Operate

+Should be good on dirt

-Low on power

-Low on speed

-Very light wing loading



Purchase Cost $30,000

Pre-buy $1,500

SQUAK $1000

Reserve $6,000

1st Insurance $1,000
----------------------------------
Subtotal $39,500
Flowers, Dinner, etc $500
----------------------------------
Grand Total $40,000

Feel free to deviate from some of my criteria. Other planes on my radar
include CITABRIA, SWIFT, RV, Maule, Grumman AA5, Navion, etc. but most of
these are out of my price range unless they are basket cases.

Think about it, I want some good answers.

BT, my post must have been boring. Most of your questions are answered in
the original post.

I guess more basically:

Must haves:
2-seats
certified engine
descent range/endurance
electric, transponder

Nice to haves:
taildragger
stick
aerobatic
grass & dirt capabilities
150 - 180 hp

Could care less:
IFR


Husky? Would love one!
Super Cub? Would love one!
Fixed Gear Piper? Warrior, not really.
Bonanza? Nah, not my style.

Did you read my post or did you get bored?

Carl,
You've answered your own question. Get a citabria. Don't sweat not
getting the higher HP. Unless you move up to a decathalon, other than
rate of climb the 150HP models can't do anything the 115HP models can't.
The 7ECA also has a higher useful load and cruise happily on 6 GPH.
My citabria can be flown IFR if I add a VOR or ILS. Could a citabria
be used for IFR training? That's a good question. I suppose you'd need
to find the right instructor.

You can get a very nice 7ECA low time example for 30k. I did, and so
far after 13months and about 80 hours I haven't had any suprises. You
MUST use a mechanic that really knows citabria's. There is a wing spar
ad that is a bit of a joke but only experienced citabria mechanics can
do the inspection properly. The biggest problem you'll have is the
hanger. Sunshine and fabric don't get along real well. I was outside
for about 11months. My plane was recovered in 1993 and had a spotty
record as far being hangered prior to my ownership. As a result,
although the fabric is perfect, the red paint on the upper surfaces has
faded.

Check out the citabria group on yahoo.com if you need more info.
There's a great mix of folks over there. They all seem to have
substantially more time flying and maintaining citabrias than I do.

One more thing, although I didn't mind renting too much, I have flown
many more hours in my first year of ownership than I could have as a
renter. It's really been great.

Dave
68 7ECA

Carl J. Hixon wrote:
Okay, I always love reading everyone's thoughts on these types of questions
so I'll post one for myself. Well, my wife finally gave me thumbs up to buy
a plane after taking a 6-year break from flying. [We all know the
story...two kids, wife staying home, private school...or some flavor of this
story.] Well, I'm pretty conservative and worry about losing my job, etc.
But darn it, it is about time to pull the trigger and get some wings. I'm
planning on taking my time 18 - 24 months to make a purchase. Once I narrow
down my model types I've got a lot of research and networking to do.



For my cyber friends, here are the base assumptions for your assignment:



$40,000 US cash in airplane fund.

ASEL VFR.

IFR training isn't out of the question but not a priority. I really enjoy
old school flying.



I live in SoCal. Tie-downs are minimum $100 per month but the weather is
good. I'm near the coast so I do suffer from marine layer moisture though.
Hangars, if one can be had, lucky find would be $400, many $800+ ...yeah,
that's a t-hanger. Go ahead and laugh most of you. I'm thinking that this
bird will be parked outside, covered from separate expense funds.



I want to start with $5000 - $7000 in reserve. I don't plan on putting away
a little each flight. It seems easier for me to hit problems in big chunks.
My accountant (wife) seems to hit me just as hard for $100 discretions as
she does with $2000 discretions. It's an event thing not a cash thing. Of
course I will embezzle every nickel I can to minimize the number of known
discretions. Not easy with an accountant for a wife. [I think that she
plays dumb because she must have some offshore accounts that I don't know
about.]



All of my training and most flying has been in Citabrias. I LOVE
taildraggers and I LOVE sticks. I have some time in Piper Archers. I have
some time in a PT-23 which was heaven on earth.or above it. Experimental or
Certified makes no difference to me. BUT, I want a certified engine-call me
chicken.



When I was flying, a lot of the time was spent alone but, everybody waves me
off of single seat aircraft. Having two sons, I'm thinking that two seats
minimum is required. Thoughts of getting the whole family into the plane
are unlikely.



I am 205 lbs. Most of my friends are 200+ lbs. Boy, Americans are fat.
Airplane must be comfortable for two adults.



I was enjoying aerobatic flying and beginning formation flying. Aerobatic
is optional. Typical mission will be the local lunch run and weekend trips.
I don't know of much backcountry flying in SoCal but camping under the wing
and fishing with my son would be a great way to spend time. See...Citabrias
seem to fit my mission pretty well.



I am all over the map on this and would love to hear your thoughts. Engine
needs to have reasonable time left on it...800 hrs+ TBO. I will probably
fly 300+ hours per year. God Bless Southern California.



Here is one candidate that I came up with:

Luscombe 8

+Taildragger

+Sticks

+2 or more Seats

+Inexpensive to Operate

+Should be good on dirt

-Low on power

-Low on speed

-Very light wing loading



Purchase Cost $30,000

Pre-buy $1,500

SQUAK $1000

Reserve $6,000

1st Insurance $1,000
----------------------------------
Subtotal $39,500
Flowers, Dinner, etc $500
----------------------------------
Grand Total $40,000

Feel free to deviate from some of my criteria. Other planes on my radar
include CITABRIA, SWIFT, RV, Maule, Grumman AA5, Navion, etc. but most of
these are out of my price range unless they are basket cases.

Think about it, I want some good answers.

Dave,

Thanks for the reply. A citabria is definitely on my short list. I did 80%
of my training for private pilot in a 7ECA. About 15% of my training was in
a KCAB, and about 5% in a KCAB. The 7ECA had sweet controls and was super
light on the stick. The KCAB didn't feel as balanced but I loved the extra
power. The KCAB was very nice but the rudder on this plane just wasn't
right so I stopped flying it. (others complained as well)

My first flight instructor and now long time friend is a former naval
aviator. He would probably not have an issue IFR training in a Citabria.
Although, as I have gained 35lbs since my PPL training...we would definitely
be over max gross weight. IFR training isn't a real goal right now, but I
should keep it in the back of my mind.

There is a wing spar ad that is a bit of a joke but only experienced
citabria
mechanics can do the inspection properly.

I am guessing that this is the one that had them put holes and inspection
covers all along the underneath of N5025D. I thought that I read somewhere
that the factory would put a metal spar on for a reasonable price. This
would get rid of the AD and add about 100lb useful load? It's been a long
time...

Sunshine and fabric don't get along real well. I was outside
for about 11months. My plane was recovered in 1993 and had a spotty
record as far being hangered prior to my ownership. As a result,
although the fabric is perfect, the red paint on the upper surfaces has
faded.

The citabrias that I rented seemed to fair okay out in the sunshine. These
planes never got washed so I am thinking that I could do better. My real
goal would be to find a shared hangar. I've got a friend with a Long-EZ
alone in a hangar...

Check out the citabria group on yahoo.com

WILCO.

Here is one candidate that I came up with:
"Carl J. Hixon" wrote in message
Luscombe 8

Luscombes are great. We have two. My 8E has a 100 hp and cruises at 110 mph.
We make about 5 camping trips a year in them. According to the seat style,
they can haul two fat or tall boys just fine.


CITABRIA One of our best buddies has two Citabrias. He loves them and
camps from them, too.

Of the two, the Luscombe is more agile, but the Citabria is more roomy.

Have fun,

Deb

--
1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)
Jasper, Ga. (JZP)

Carl,

You might want to look at a used homebuilt. You get more plane for your
money, but you do have to be extra diligent when buying.

At any rate, you are more likely to get more of your wants in a homebuilt
than certified if you want to avoid fabric (since it is going to be
outdoors).

Its an option that could be argued many ways. IMO, I would want to avoid
fabric unhangared. I am sure many others here would rather have fabric
outside than homebuilt anyway. I have zero fabric experience, so I may be
worrynig needlessly.




"Carl J. Hixon" wrote in message
news:GHEid.100810$hj.68780@fed1read07...
BT, my post must have been boring. Most of your questions are answered in
the original post.

I guess more basically:

Must haves:
2-seats
certified engine
descent range/endurance
electric, transponder

Nice to haves:
taildragger
stick
aerobatic
grass & dirt capabilities
150 - 180 hp

Could care less:
IFR


Husky? Would love one!
Super Cub? Would love one!
Fixed Gear Piper? Warrior, not really.
Bonanza? Nah, not my style.

Did you read my post or did you get bored?

Citabria

"Carl J. Hixon" wrote in message news:GHEid.100810$hj.68780@fed1read07...
BT, my post must have been boring. Most of your questions are answered in
the original post.

I guess more basically:

Must haves:
2-seats
certified engine
descent range/endurance
electric, transponder

Nice to haves:
taildragger
stick
aerobatic
grass & dirt capabilities
150 - 180 hp

Could care less:
IFR


Husky? Would love one!
Super Cub? Would love one!
Fixed Gear Piper? Warrior, not really.
Bonanza? Nah, not my style.

Did you read my post or did you get bored?

I think the wings from ACA are around $18k. There's another company,
Millman, that makes an aluminum spar. Oddly enough, you can't get the
weight increase with their spar. Many think that the cracked spars only
occur on planes that have been damaged, ie ground loop. That's why
it's key to get a mechanic that can recognize a crack in the wood from
odd brush strokes on the varnish.

Dave
68 7ECA

Carl J. Hixon wrote:
Dave,

Thanks for the reply. A citabria is definitely on my short list. I did 80%
of my training for private pilot in a 7ECA. About 15% of my training was in
a KCAB, and about 5% in a KCAB. The 7ECA had sweet controls and was super
light on the stick. The KCAB didn't feel as balanced but I loved the extra
power. The KCAB was very nice but the rudder on this plane just wasn't
right so I stopped flying it. (others complained as well)

My first flight instructor and now long time friend is a former naval
aviator. He would probably not have an issue IFR training in a Citabria.
Although, as I have gained 35lbs since my PPL training...we would definitely
be over max gross weight. IFR training isn't a real goal right now, but I
should keep it in the back of my mind.


There is a wing spar ad that is a bit of a joke but only experienced

citabria

mechanics can do the inspection properly.


I am guessing that this is the one that had them put holes and inspection
covers all along the underneath of N5025D. I thought that I read somewhere
that the factory would put a metal spar on for a reasonable price. This
would get rid of the AD and add about 100lb useful load? It's been a long
time...


Sunshine and fabric don't get along real well. I was outside
for about 11months. My plane was recovered in 1993 and had a spotty
record as far being hangered prior to my ownership. As a result,
although the fabric is perfect, the red paint on the upper surfaces has
faded.


The citabrias that I rented seemed to fair okay out in the sunshine. These
planes never got washed so I am thinking that I could do better. My real
goal would be to find a shared hangar. I've got a friend with a Long-EZ
alone in a hangar...


Check out the citabria group on yahoo.com


WILCO.

" 1946 Luscombe 8A (His)
1948 Luscombe 8E (Hers)
1954 Cessna 195B, restoring (Ours)

Now that is marital bliss! He is one lucky guy.