Bad one this AM... :(

Halifax, Nova Scotia , - Canada...

A cargo 747, 7 lost...

Dave

http://sympaticomsn.ctv.ca/servlet/A...hub=topstories

"Dave" wrote in message
...

Halifax, Nova Scotia , - Canada...

A cargo 747, 7 lost...

Some news reports are saying that the 747 attempted an intersection takeoff
with 6000 feet of runway left, fully loaded with fuel and cargo for a flight
from Halifax to Spain. Can the 747 really do that?

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Some news reports are saying that the 747 attempted an intersection
takeoff
with 6000 feet of runway left, fully loaded with fuel and cargo for a
flight
from Halifax to Spain. Can the 747 really do that?

That one? Apparently not.

Yes........ started at the 700 metre point, 2000 meters
remaining...

Any 747 jocks here to comment? Temps were about 6 deg C at the
time, dry, rny is fairly level, little wind...

Apparently rotated, drug the tail all the way to -and hit the
ILS antenna berm. Tail separated at that impact and the rest we
know..

One thing tho, I was VERY impressed with the ATV
reporting...no stupid comic book aeronautical stuff... just good
reporting on what they knew as the story progressed...

Dave


On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:16:11 -0700, "Peter Duniho"
wrote:

"C J Campbell" wrote in message
...
Some news reports are saying that the 747 attempted an intersection
takeoff
with 6000 feet of runway left, fully loaded with fuel and cargo for a
flight
from Halifax to Spain. Can the 747 really do that?

That one? Apparently not.

On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:05:26 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Dave" wrote in message
.. .

Halifax, Nova Scotia , - Canada...

A cargo 747, 7 lost...

Some news reports are saying that the 747 attempted an intersection takeoff
with 6000 feet of runway left, fully loaded with fuel and cargo for a flight
from Halifax to Spain. Can the 747 really do that?

This Boeing site
(http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/747.htm) lists tech
details like the takeoff rolls for a given weight. We need to know
what model of 747, the brake release weight, and the pressure altitude
to determine takeoff roll.

As an example though:
The -100,-200,-300 versions of the 747 show the takeoff distance to be
9500 feet @ sea level @ max gross (720,000 lbs)

To make a 6000ft runway, the plane needs to be 140,000 lbs lighter
(580,000lbs).

The numbers for the 747-400 are even higher (starting @ 6000 feet, and
going up from there). Which explains Denver's 16,000ft runway.

-Nathan

"Dave" wrote in message -
Apparently rotated, drug the tail all the way to -and hit the
ILS antenna berm. Tail separated at that impact and the rest we
know..

Don't know much about a 747, but I have watched a video produced by Boeing
that shows the effects of dragging the tail. It adds a significant amount to
the take-off distance.

D.

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
"Dave" wrote in message -
Apparently rotated, drug the tail all the way to -and hit the
ILS antenna berm. Tail separated at that impact and the rest we
know..

Don't know much about a 747, but I have watched a video produced by Boeing
that shows the effects of dragging the tail. It adds a significant amount
to
the take-off distance.

D.




Time for boeing to add a tail wheel to the 747

"NW_PILOT" wrote in message
...

"Capt.Doug" wrote in message
...
Don't know much about a 747, but I have watched a video produced by
Boeing
that shows the effects of dragging the tail. It adds a significant
amount
to
the take-off distance.

Time for boeing to add a tail wheel to the 747

Concorde has a tailwheel.

Paul

Paul Sengupta wrote:
NW_PILOT wrote:
Capt.Doug wrote:

Don't know much about a 747, but I have watched a video produced
by Boeing that shows the effects of dragging the tail. It adds a
significant amount to the take-off distance.

Time for boeing to add a tail wheel to the 747

Concorde has a tailwheel.

Tailwheels aren't really all that much *use* in museums. :-(

Nathan Young wrote in message . ..
On Fri, 15 Oct 2004 10:05:26 -0700, "C J Campbell"
wrote:


"Dave" wrote in message
.. .

Halifax, Nova Scotia , - Canada...

A cargo 747, 7 lost...

Some news reports are saying that the 747 attempted an intersection takeoff
with 6000 feet of runway left, fully loaded with fuel and cargo for a flight
from Halifax to Spain. Can the 747 really do that?

This Boeing site
(http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/747.htm) lists tech
details like the takeoff rolls for a given weight. We need to know
what model of 747, the brake release weight, and the pressure altitude
to determine takeoff roll.

As an example though:
The -100,-200,-300 versions of the 747 show the takeoff distance to be
9500 feet @ sea level @ max gross (720,000 lbs)

To make a 6000ft runway, the plane needs to be 140,000 lbs lighter
(580,000lbs).

The numbers for the 747-400 are even higher (starting @ 6000 feet, and
going up from there). Which explains Denver's 16,000ft runway.

-Nathan


Nathan - A crew is required to calculate the balanced filed length
which provides sufficient runway for the plane to accelerate to V1,
lose an engine, and then stop using only brakes, with no reverse
thrust. The actual length required for a normal take-off is much much
less.

And as another poster noted, this was not a normal takeoff in that the
crew apparently over-rotated the airplane, resulting in the tailstrike
and diminishing the plan's performance.

It will interesting to learn more about this as the investigation
develops. My thoughts and condolances to those who loved the members
of the crew.

Blue skies

John