When to descend II

Bee wrote:
But, I don't know all those controller rules. Is that in the AIM anywhere?

If not, I would exercise my PIC option to seek clarification.



By all means ask if you're unsure. But it's still not necessary. Just
like an approach clearance cancels a speed restriction unless restated
or a descend and maintain clearance cancels a pilot discretion descent.

"Dan Luke" wrote in message
...

You're 4 miles SW of ROYCE.

http://www.naco.faa.gov/d-tpp/0710/00198IL12R.PDF

Approach says "Cessna '1GS,cross ROYCE at or above 2 thousand, cleared
visual approach runwy 12R. Contact the tower on 118.7."

On initial contact, Tower says "Cessna '1GS, runwy 12R, cleared to land."

Do you still have to cross ROYCE at 2,000 or can you head for the numbers
and come on down?


Head for the numbers and come on down.

"john smith" wrote in message
...

If you are going to fly the ILS, yes.
If you are going to request a visual approach, no.


Visual approach clearance has been issued.

"Peter R." wrote in message
...

Not enough information. Were you tracking the ILS when the visual approach
was issued? Or were you approaching the airport from another direction?


The position was given as 4 miles southwest of ROYCE.

"Bee" wrote in message ...

I presume approach had vectored you onto the localizer previously or you
would not be able to identify ROYCE.


The position was given as four miles southwest of ROYCE.



The instruction to cross ROYCE at or above two-thousand is an IFR
restriction with which you must comply because the visual approach isn't
authorized until passing ROYCE.


The visual approach is authorized the instant it's issued.

"Ron Rosenfeld" wrote in message
...

I've not flown in that area, but ATC may be wanting you to fly to Royce
before turning inbound because of traffic on approach to Rwy 12L. There
are
some issues with intersecting flight paths that need to be avoided when
dealing with parallel runway operations.


If ATC wants him over ROYCE they must issue routing over ROYCE or vector him
to that point and withold visual approach clearance until he's over ROYCE or
past it.



Of course, if in VMC, you could cancel your IFR flight plan, mooting the
previous ATC clearance.


Well, he can cancel, but that may not do a lot for him. It's Class B
airspace so separation is still an issue.

"Newps" wrote in message
...

An at or above altitude in a clearance like that almost always means there
will be traffic under you going into a different airport.


Hard to fit another airplane between traffic at 2000 MSL and towers over
1000 MSL.

"Bee" wrote in message ...

No turn inbound required. He is presumably already on the localizer or he
couldn't identify ROYCE.


No presumption required, it was given that he's four miles southwest of
ROYCE.



Might not be the best airspace to be doing that without making sure you
won't be descending onto some other aircraft like Newps says.


There's no room for traffic below.

"Bee" wrote in message ...

But, in essence you are clearing me direct-to-the-FAF. This is not an en
route fix or even an IAF or earlier. Only in limited circumstances are
you allowed to clear me direct to an RNAV IF. I certainly don't see how
you can make me cross a FAF unless you have correctly placed me on the
IAP.


It's easy. "Cessna 1GS, proceed direct ROYCE, expect visual approach runway
12R."

"Bee" wrote in message ...

Okay, I get it. The IAP is not even in the plan. IFR to a fix, then
visual or, if unable, a new plan. Maybe, the at or above 2,000 at ROYCE
was to keep the pilot at MVA instead of for traffic? You think maybe so?


The MVA is irrelevant once cleared for the visual approach.