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How to get IFR Clearance enroute?



 
 
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  #11  
Old May 20th 04, 04:00 PM
Maule Driver
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Maximizing the system is filing IFR for me. YMMV. But outside of
departures from the NY and DC Class B areas, filing is the way to optimize
your use of the system. Don't always have to open it, don't have to stay on
it. But with GPS and good ATC skills, I usually can optimize my flight
paths and altitudes better in the system than out of it.

My experience is somewhat limited and geo specific however.

"Peter R." wrote in message
...
) wrote:

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to

encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning.


I disagree. Are you claiming that good flight planning will always

provide
an accurate picture of future weather, especially for a trip that covers a
large number of hours and miles?

IMO, experienced weather forecasters sometimes get it wrong. When they

do,
then there are going to be times when I, as the pilot who is planning the
flight with their products, will get it wrong.

Sure, one can simply cover all bases and always file IFR, but knowing how
to maximize the system seems to me to be the theme of this thread.

--
Peter












  #12  
Old May 20th 04, 05:23 PM
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"Peter R." wrote:

) wrote:

If you don't have a pretty good idea of where you are likely to encounter
IMC en route, you haven't done a very good job of flight planning.


I disagree. Are you claiming that good flight planning will always provide
an accurate picture of future weather, especially for a trip that covers a
large number of hours and miles?


I said "pretty good idea of where (the IMC is likely to be). A composite
flight plan can deal with that approximation quite nicely, yet not create the
issues that an air file can cause.



IMO, experienced weather forecasters sometimes get it wrong. When they do,
then there are going to be times when I, as the pilot who is planning the
flight with their products, will get it wrong.


Of course, but not to the extent of not having a pretty good idea.



Sure, one can simply cover all bases and always file IFR, but knowing how
to maximize the system seems to me to be the theme of this thread.


"Always filing IFR" is quite different than filing a composite flight plan.
And, if the weather is "super good," then a flight of such length should
"always" be on a VFR flight plan if a composite or IFR flight plan is not
necessary.


  #13  
Old May 20th 04, 06:05 PM
Stan Gosnell
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Nathan Young wrote in
:

When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport? I
always give the actual departure airport even though I left there some
time ago. For my route of flight, I just use the closest VORs
remaining on the flightplan.


There is no requirement that an IFR clearance start or end at an airport.
You can give any fix you like, preferably still ahead of you. It can be a
VOR, NDB, intersection, or just lat/lon. A named fix of one sort or another
makes it easier on everyone, though.

--
Regards,

Stan

  #15  
Old May 20th 04, 06:15 PM
Stimbo
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Thanks to EVERYONE for such great suggestions!

You provided me some new ideas, and some that were just plain common
sense, I must admit.

I, of course, know that I can simply FILE IFR from the get-go and just
not activate it until I need it. However NJ to FL is a 9-hour flight
in a Cessna 172 plus 2 stops totalling 10 to 12 hours. I don't
remember how long the IFR plan stays active in the system (3 hours?)
before it's dropped. I guess this procedure makes me file every time
I make a fuel/potty stop.

I like the COMPOSITE flight plan idea. I had sorta forgotten about
it. I need to read more about it. Is this easy to
implement/activate?

Thanks to SNOWBIRD (Sydney) for such great detail and your anecdotes.

Yes - I should have originally stated that if VFR it would be with
Flight Following. That's too long of a flight without help of some
kind - especially these days (TFR's etc.)

My eventual goal is to the Bahamas. I may start a new thread for some
tips.

Thanks again!

Stimbo
Medford, NJ
  #16  
Old May 20th 04, 06:28 PM
Dave Butler
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Stimbo wrote:

I, of course, know that I can simply FILE IFR from the get-go and just
not activate it until I need it. However NJ to FL is a 9-hour flight
in a Cessna 172 plus 2 stops totalling 10 to 12 hours. I don't
remember how long the IFR plan stays active in the system (3 hours?)
before it's dropped. I guess this procedure makes me file every time
I make a fuel/potty stop.


Do you mean that during the fuel/potty stop you need to file a flight plan? For
a multi-leg trip, I file all the plans, one for each leg, before I leave home.

I like the COMPOSITE flight plan idea. I had sorta forgotten about
it. I need to read more about it. Is this easy to
implement/activate?


I know some people like composite flight plans. I don't. I say if you want two
flight plans, just file two flight plans, one VFR for the VFR part of the route
and one IFR for the IFR part of the route. Less confusing for everyone, IMO.


Thanks to SNOWBIRD (Sydney) for such great detail and your anecdotes.


Yeah, isn't she cool?

Remove SHIRT to reply directly.

Dave

  #17  
Old May 20th 04, 06:57 PM
Bob Gardner
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The first step is to use flight following, which puts you in contact with
ATC right off the bat. Then all you have to do is ask for an IFR clearance
"present position direct" to your destination (or via airways, your choice).
This works great out here in the West...can't speak for the crowded east.

Bob Gardner

"Stimbo" wrote in message
om...
What are the recommended procedures in obtaining an IFR clearance
enroute?

Flying from NJ to FL, I prefer to fly VFR, but undoubtedly I will
encounter IMC along the way. If I filed IFR in advance, it takes 1/2
hour or more to clear it through ATC. I obviously cannot wait 1/2
hour if I encounter IMC enroute.

Is there an "acceptable" procedure enroute if I start seeing a cumulus
build-up in front of me? Do I have to land and file? Do I file with
FSS and wait 1/2 hour before I open with Center? Can I file directly
with Center? Is this idea generally "frowned upon" by ATC?

I'm not necessarily looking for regulations as I am for practical
experiences that others have witnessed.

Thanks for any tips.

Stimbo
Medford, NJ



  #18  
Old May 20th 04, 07:10 PM
Steven P. McNicoll
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"Nathan Young" wrote in message
...

When filing en route, what do you use as the departure airport?


Don't use an airport, use the fix where you intend to pick up the IFR
clearance.


  #19  
Old May 20th 04, 07:50 PM
Maule Driver
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"Stimbo" wrote in message
om...
I, of course, know that I can simply FILE IFR from the get-go and just
not activate it until I need it.


Well, not really. If you file, you need to open at departure. Otherwise,
down the line they won't know who you are and may not go look.

However NJ to FL is a 9-hour flight
in a Cessna 172 plus 2 stops totalling 10 to 12 hours. I don't
remember how long the IFR plan stays active in the system (3 hours?)
before it's dropped. I guess this procedure makes me file every time
I make a fuel/potty stop.

No, you file all the legs at the beginning. Then open (or not) at each
departure. Works great.

I like the COMPOSITE flight plan idea. I had sorta forgotten about
it. I need to read more about it. Is this easy to
implement/activate?


I gave up on Composite plans - I'm sure they work fine though. I either
file and open at departure or file/get a clearance enroute

Yes - I should have originally stated that if VFR it would be with
Flight Following. That's too long of a flight without help of some
kind - especially these days (TFR's etc.)

True. But they will let you wander into active MOAs on occassion. I'm
talking specifically NC to south FL.

I've done Raleigh to Miami, Key West, Tampa a number of times. If you have
the ticket, I'd file and fly IFR. Despite the fact that VFR below cloudbase
if often the best strategy in NC and SC during the summer. My experience is
that it doesn't work so well further south on long CCs. Bases too low, too
much tricky airspace, etc. Flying the cloud canyons IFR with an occassional
penetration, Cheap*******, and lots of radar advisories from the very
experienced FL controllers has worked best for me.

BTW, I fly north from Raleigh to NJ, PA, and NY. North of Richmond, the
rules change and VFR is a critical tool in good weather. Can't necessarily
make sense of that but that's my experience.


 




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