Gasohol

Well, we've been down this road before, back when the Alky test first
came on the scene. Some chemist here ended up concluding that the
test was valid, but I'm always open to hearing other thoughts on the
matter.

If the danged test DIDN'T work, that could ruin my whole day...

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did the Alka Seltzer test on a sample
of Regular Unleaded (87 Octane) - the stuff I put in my lawn mowers.
No fizz. I buy it at
the pumps of a local supermarket chain in North Carolina. Dunno where
the State stands on Gasohol, but I don't see any Alcohol Notification
Stickers there (the pumps at some other local gas stations have
stickers stating that the gas MAY contain alcohol)

David Johnson

"Dave" wrote

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did the Alka Seltzer test on a sample
of Regular Unleaded (87 Octane) - the stuff I put in my lawn mowers.
No fizz. I buy it at
the pumps of a local supermarket chain in North Carolina. Dunno where
the State stands on Gasohol, but I don't see any Alcohol Notification
Stickers there (the pumps at some other local gas stations have
stickers stating that the gas MAY contain alcohol)

Do you live in a county that has required emissions control testing for
cars? They have the red and white stripe inspection stickers.

I ask, because it is in these counties that are required to add an
oxygenator to the gas in the summer months. That is most likely alcohol.

I don't know when the addition to the fuel begins or ends. I would have to
say right about.......NOW ! ! !

When did you purchase said tested gas?
--
Jim in NC

"Peter Dohm" writes:


Given the issue with alcohol, and the fact it is injected at the
last stage - truck loading -- why aren't the STA owners such as EAA
running campaigns to set up procedures for FBO's to procure untainted
autogas?

I really doubt that the terminal operators are so ignorant as to make that a
problem.

Ha!


OTOH, there are some real problems for the FBO to overcome. One FBO owner,
who I know, stopped selling gasolene several years ago--saying that he
sometimes suspected that he lost more to evaporation than he pumped.


That's a "selling autogas" problem;
vice "finding un-Ethenol'ed autogas to sell" one.

Agreed the first may be an issue..

BUT if you have a gaggle of STA'ed aircraft owners based there and
you but not evry EatHerAndGetGas sells what they want and need....




--
A host is a host from coast to
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433

Your alka seltzer fizzes in water. It all by itself does not detect alcohol...

And now for the rest of the story....

Step 1....
Got a clean urine sample cup - meaning unused...
Using a sterile syringe I added 1.5cc of denatured alcohol (S-L-X
brand) from a previously opened can, which will have an unknown % of
absorbed water vapor, to the sample cup...
Dropped in a small chunk of Alka Seltzer Original...
Faint fizzing noted - you will have to be gimlet eyed to see it - but
it does fizz... So, we can assume that "pure" alcohol ( a weak
organic acid that always contains absorbed water) will 'fizz' Alka-
Seltzer (contains bicarb of soda) if a bit faintly...

Step 2....
Added 0.4 cc of warm weak tea ( it was handy) in 0.1cc increments...
Fizzing rate essentially doubled, or a bit more, by the time I reached
the 0.4 cc value... Easy to see... This is 26% imbibed water in the
alcohol... Dunno what effect the pH of the tea had - I assume that
word that it might enhance the fizzing from the bicarb...

**** the intellectual reason for the tea besides it being in my hand
is that water condensed on a metallic surface will be weakly
acidic****

Step 3...
Dumped the liquid from the cup and added a dash of tap water...
Fizzing about tripled the rate from Step 2...


Alka-Seltzer does not fizz explosively, like Arm&Hammer bicarbonate of
soda would because it is buffered with citric acid... you will need
to google on buffering and rate of reactions to understand some of
that

Unfortunately, for scientific rigor, I do not have any so called
gasoline handy to test with... I have one minute to start seeing
patients and I suspect they will not be impressed of I reek of the
nasty crap they sell for gas these days...

denny

On Jun 4, 1:33 pm, "RST Engineering" wrote:
The denizens of this ng have known and discussed this for some time now,
sir. WHere have you been?

Jim


Did I beat you up or something when we were kids?

denny

"Denny" wrote in message oups.com...


Your alka seltzer fizzes in water. It all by itself does not detect alcohol...

And now for the rest of the story....

Step 1....
Got a clean urine sample cup - meaning unused...
Using a sterile syringe I added 1.5cc of denatured alcohol (S-L-X
brand) from a previously opened can, which will have an unknown % of
absorbed water vapor, to the sample cup...
Dropped in a small chunk of Alka Seltzer Original...
Faint fizzing noted - you will have to be gimlet eyed to see it - but
it does fizz... So, we can assume that "pure" alcohol ( a weak
organic acid that always contains absorbed water) will 'fizz' Alka-
Seltzer (contains bicarb of soda) if a bit faintly...

Step 2....
Added 0.4 cc of warm weak tea ( it was handy) in 0.1cc increments...
Fizzing rate essentially doubled, or a bit more, by the time I reached
the 0.4 cc value... Easy to see... This is 26% imbibed water in the
alcohol... Dunno what effect the pH of the tea had - I assume that
word that it might enhance the fizzing from the bicarb...

**** the intellectual reason for the tea besides it being in my hand
is that water condensed on a metallic surface will be weakly
acidic****

Step 3...
Dumped the liquid from the cup and added a dash of tap water...
Fizzing about tripled the rate from Step 2...


Alka-Seltzer does not fizz explosively, like Arm&Hammer bicarbonate of
soda would because it is buffered with citric acid... you will need
to google on buffering and rate of reactions to understand some of
that

Unfortunately, for scientific rigor, I do not have any so called
gasoline handy to test with... I have one minute to start seeing
patients and I suspect they will not be impressed of I reek of the
nasty crap they sell for gas these days...

denny


Thanks Denny, good post, esp. the "so called gasoline" comment...

"Dave" wrote in message oups.com...
Well, we've been down this road before, back when the Alky test first
came on the scene. Some chemist here ended up concluding that the
test was valid, but I'm always open to hearing other thoughts on the
matter.

If the danged test DIDN'T work, that could ruin my whole day...

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did the Alka Seltzer test on a sample
of Regular Unleaded (87 Octane) - the stuff I put in my lawn mowers.
No fizz. I buy it at
the pumps of a local supermarket chain in North Carolina. Dunno where
the State stands on Gasohol, but I don't see any Alcohol Notification
Stickers there (the pumps at some other local gas stations have
stickers stating that the gas MAY contain alcohol)

David Johnson


There is no requirement for any gas station nationwide to put any notification on their pumps. Only some very few states
have tried to add the notification.

Try the 'water to the line' test when you have a chance...

On Jun 3, 7:31 pm, SS2MO wrote:

Currently retailers can save money by adding alcohol to the gasoline
because the alcohol is less expensive than gasoline, so they can blen
it in and sell it to you as auto gasoline - you may not know it.

I don't believe it's true anymore. At some point last year or so
wholesale price of ethonal started to exceed the wholesale price of 87
octane gasoline.

On Jun 6, 11:29 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Dave" wrote

Just to satisfy my curiosity, I did the Alka Seltzer test on a sample
of Regular Unleaded (87 Octane) - the stuff I put in my lawn mowers.
No fizz. I buy it at
the pumps of a local supermarket chain in North Carolina. Dunno where
the State stands on Gasohol, but I don't see any Alcohol Notification
Stickers there (the pumps at some other local gas stations have
stickers stating that the gas MAY contain alcohol)

Do you live in a county that has required emissions control testing for
cars? They have the red and white stripe inspection stickers.

I ask, because it is in these counties that are required to add an
oxygenator to the gas in the summer months. That is most likely alcohol.

I don't know when the addition to the fuel begins or ends. I would have to
say right about.......NOW ! ! !

When did you purchase said tested gas?
--
Jim in NC

I am in Buncombe County, and yes - emissions testing is required for
some cars.
The gas is probably a couple months old. I have several 5 gallon cans
that I keep
full for use in my emergency generator - but rotate them as I use the
gas in my
lawnmowers, weedwacker & motorcycle. BTW - in my experience Unleaded
keeps much better than the old Leaded gas used to.

David Johnson

"David Lesher" wrote in message ...
"Peter Dohm" writes:


Given the issue with alcohol, and the fact it is injected at the
last stage - truck loading -- why aren't the STA owners such as EAA
running campaigns to set up procedures for FBO's to procure untainted
autogas?

I really doubt that the terminal operators are so ignorant as to make that a
problem.

Ha!


OTOH, there are some real problems for the FBO to overcome. One FBO owner,
who I know, stopped selling gasolene several years ago--saying that he
sometimes suspected that he lost more to evaporation than he pumped.


That's a "selling autogas" problem;
vice "finding un-Ethenol'ed autogas to sell" one.

Agreed the first may be an issue..

BUT if you have a gaggle of STA'ed aircraft owners based there and
you but not evry EatHerAndGetGas sells what they want and need....




If this special clean gas w/o alcohol is brought to the airport and kept there, doesn't it pretty much miss the point of
the autogas STC? The whole idea was to be able to use normal autogas in these old low compression engines.