Gasohol

"Blueskies" wrote in message
. net...

"Morgans" wrote in message
news

"Ernest Christley" wrote

Nope. He was talking about an old engine. It needs the prunes to keep
the works from gumming up. I think most of the guys here know that. 8*)

I wonder if prunes work on old engines, like they work on me?

It would give the engine exhaust a certain.....
Aroma! ggg
--
Jim in NC


Free up the lifters?

Yes, that it would, but beware of potential backfires.

On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:29:04 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Blueskies" wrote:

If this special clean gas w/o alcohol is brought to the airport and kept
there, doesn't it pretty much miss the point of
the autogas STC? The whole idea was to be able to use normal autogas in
these
old low compression engines.

I thought one objective was to avoid using the 100LL in engines that were
prune
to lead fouling.

Wouldn't prunes give them gas?

Although gas might be a byproduct, prunes are primarily an agent for
cleaning out all the old crap which should leave the engine nice and
clean on the inside.

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
...
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:29:04 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Blueskies" wrote:

If this special clean gas w/o alcohol is brought to the airport and
kept
there, doesn't it pretty much miss the point of
the autogas STC? The whole idea was to be able to use normal autogas in
these
old low compression engines.

I thought one objective was to avoid using the 100LL in engines that
were
prune
to lead fouling.

Wouldn't prunes give them gas?

Although gas might be a byproduct, prunes are primarily an agent for
cleaning out all the old crap which should leave the engine nice and
clean on the inside.

Yes, but would the gas be Mogas or 100LL?

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007 07:37:45 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message
.. .
On Sat, 9 Jun 2007 17:29:04 -0700, "Matt Barrow"
wrote:


"Bob Noel" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"Blueskies" wrote:

If this special clean gas w/o alcohol is brought to the airport and
kept
there, doesn't it pretty much miss the point of
the autogas STC? The whole idea was to be able to use normal autogas in
these
old low compression engines.

I thought one objective was to avoid using the 100LL in engines that
were
prune
to lead fouling.

Wouldn't prunes give them gas?

Although gas might be a byproduct, prunes are primarily an agent for
cleaning out all the old crap which should leave the engine nice and
clean on the inside.

Yes, but would the gas be Mogas or 100LL?

Prunes are "nature's dynamite and will clean out old or new pipes
regardless of what you've been running though them. They add a bit of
color to the diet.

"Blueskies" wrote in message t...

"Denny" wrote in message oups.com...


Your alka seltzer fizzes in water. It all by itself does not detect alcohol...

And now for the rest of the story....

Step 1....
Got a clean urine sample cup - meaning unused...
Using a sterile syringe I added 1.5cc of denatured alcohol (S-L-X
brand) from a previously opened can, which will have an unknown % of
absorbed water vapor, to the sample cup...
Dropped in a small chunk of Alka Seltzer Original...
Faint fizzing noted - you will have to be gimlet eyed to see it - but
it does fizz... So, we can assume that "pure" alcohol ( a weak
organic acid that always contains absorbed water) will 'fizz' Alka-
Seltzer (contains bicarb of soda) if a bit faintly...

Step 2....
Added 0.4 cc of warm weak tea ( it was handy) in 0.1cc increments...
Fizzing rate essentially doubled, or a bit more, by the time I reached
the 0.4 cc value... Easy to see... This is 26% imbibed water in the
alcohol... Dunno what effect the pH of the tea had - I assume that
word that it might enhance the fizzing from the bicarb...

**** the intellectual reason for the tea besides it being in my hand
is that water condensed on a metallic surface will be weakly
acidic****

Step 3...
Dumped the liquid from the cup and added a dash of tap water...
Fizzing about tripled the rate from Step 2...


Alka-Seltzer does not fizz explosively, like Arm&Hammer bicarbonate of
soda would because it is buffered with citric acid... you will need
to google on buffering and rate of reactions to understand some of
that

Unfortunately, for scientific rigor, I do not have any so called
gasoline handy to test with... I have one minute to start seeing
patients and I suspect they will not be impressed of I reek of the
nasty crap they sell for gas these days...

denny


Thanks Denny, good post, esp. the "so called gasoline" comment...



Went down to 'the shore' the other day and was able to check out the fuel pumps for the boats. The label on the pump
said "100% Pure Gasoline". So, the implication here is that unless you see a label that says 100% pure, you are most
likely getting gasohol. There needs to be a lawsuit or something to get the pumps labeled correctly...

On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:30:38 GMT, "Blueskies"
wrote:


"Blueskies" wrote in message t...

"Denny" wrote in message oups.com...


Your alka seltzer fizzes in water. It all by itself does not detect alcohol...

And now for the rest of the story....

Step 1....
Got a clean urine sample cup - meaning unused...
Using a sterile syringe I added 1.5cc of denatured alcohol (S-L-X
brand) from a previously opened can, which will have an unknown % of
absorbed water vapor, to the sample cup...
Dropped in a small chunk of Alka Seltzer Original...
Faint fizzing noted - you will have to be gimlet eyed to see it - but
it does fizz... So, we can assume that "pure" alcohol ( a weak
organic acid that always contains absorbed water) will 'fizz' Alka-
Seltzer (contains bicarb of soda) if a bit faintly...

Step 2....
Added 0.4 cc of warm weak tea ( it was handy) in 0.1cc increments...
Fizzing rate essentially doubled, or a bit more, by the time I reached
the 0.4 cc value... Easy to see... This is 26% imbibed water in the
alcohol... Dunno what effect the pH of the tea had - I assume that
word that it might enhance the fizzing from the bicarb...

**** the intellectual reason for the tea besides it being in my hand
is that water condensed on a metallic surface will be weakly
acidic****

Step 3...
Dumped the liquid from the cup and added a dash of tap water...
Fizzing about tripled the rate from Step 2...


Alka-Seltzer does not fizz explosively, like Arm&Hammer bicarbonate of
soda would because it is buffered with citric acid... you will need
to google on buffering and rate of reactions to understand some of
that

Unfortunately, for scientific rigor, I do not have any so called
gasoline handy to test with... I have one minute to start seeing
patients and I suspect they will not be impressed of I reek of the
nasty crap they sell for gas these days...

denny


Thanks Denny, good post, esp. the "so called gasoline" comment...



Went down to 'the shore' the other day and was able to check out the fuel pumps for the boats. The label on the pump
said "100% Pure Gasoline". So, the implication here is that unless you see a label that says 100% pure, you are most
likely getting gasohol. There needs to be a lawsuit or something to get the pumps labeled correctly...

And you would sue who?

In Michigan the pumps are required to have a lable. That lable states
this fuel meets Michigan quality standard something or other. Nothing
is said about Alcohol. Back in the 70s the labels stated This gas
contains 10% Ethenol or something to that effect. Maybe Denny know why
it was changed.

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message ...
On Tue, 19 Jun 2007 21:30:38 GMT, "Blueskies"
wrote:


"Blueskies" wrote in message t...

Went down to 'the shore' the other day and was able to check out the fuel pumps for the boats. The label on the pump
said "100% Pure Gasoline". So, the implication here is that unless you see a label that says 100% pure, you are most
likely getting gasohol. There needs to be a lawsuit or something to get the pumps labeled correctly...

And you would sue who?

In Michigan the pumps are required to have a lable. That lable states
this fuel meets Michigan quality standard something or other. Nothing
is said about Alcohol. Back in the 70s the labels stated This gas
contains 10% Ethenol or something to that effect. Maybe Denny know why
it was changed.



Yes, that is my and a few others' point. It seems that any other product sold in the USA has some sort of truth in
labeling requirement. The feds dropped the requirement to indicate ethanol in the gasoline a few years ago, and since
that time the so-called gasoline is getting cut with higher and higher levels of ethanol. This is giving all of us lower
and lower gas mileage per gallon burned. This would never happen with any other product sold in the USA. It is false
marketing and should be challenged.

Just happened to catch CSPAN this afternoon, and they were debating the so-called energy bill. Amazing the comments from
both sides, and not one mention about how inefficient it is to make ethanol from corn! Believe it or not, the dems were
arguing for marked based corn prices, while the republicans were trying to get price controls in place. Jay's Iowa
senator is all for this corn subsidy stuff...simply baffling...

Looks like they thought they were aligning with national standards. From
a timeline report by that state's Renewable Fuels Commission:

"2003—Michigan State Legislature adopts and Governor Jennifer Granholm
approves property tax incentives for the manufacturing and blending of
biodiesel fuel. State legislation for mandatory labeling of 10% ethanol
blends at Michigan service station gasoline pumps is changed to be
consistent with national voluntary label standards..."

It is interesting, as I'd thought the first gasahol was 15% ethanol, but
there's no way to know whether local blends are ten, fifteen or some
random percent. Makes it hard to test performance, doesn't it?


Roger (K8RI) wrote:

In Michigan the pumps are required to have a lable. That lable states
this fuel meets Michigan quality standard something or other. Nothing
is said about Alcohol. Back in the 70s the labels stated This gas
contains 10% Ethenol or something to that effect. Maybe Denny know why
it was changed.

On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:29:52 -0700, Stella Starr
wrote:

Looks like they thought they were aligning with national standards. From
a timeline report by that state's Renewable Fuels Commission:

"2003—Michigan State Legislature adopts and Governor Jennifer Granholm
approves property tax incentives for the manufacturing and blending of
biodiesel fuel. State legislation for mandatory labeling of 10% ethanol
blends at Michigan service station gasoline pumps is changed to be
consistent with national voluntary label standards..."

It is interesting, as I'd thought the first gasahol was 15% ethanol, but
there's no way to know whether local blends are ten, fifteen or some
random percent. Makes it hard to test performance, doesn't it?


In Michigan I think it's 10% and has been. Alcohol costs more than
gas now days. The only reason it's priced so low is due to subsidies.

Our early Gasohol was 10% here although back then I don't think there
was a standard. OTOH back then it took nearly 1 1/2 to two gallons of
fuel to make one gallon of ethanol.


Roger (K8RI) wrote:

In Michigan the pumps are required to have a lable. That lable states
this fuel meets Michigan quality standard something or other. Nothing
is said about Alcohol. Back in the 70s the labels stated This gas
contains 10% Ethenol or something to that effect. Maybe Denny know why
it was changed.

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jun 2007 18:29:52 -0700, Stella Starr
wrote:

Looks like they thought they were aligning with national standards. From
a timeline report by that state's Renewable Fuels Commission:

"2003-Michigan State Legislature adopts and Governor Jennifer Granholm
approves property tax incentives for the manufacturing and blending of
biodiesel fuel. State legislation for mandatory labeling of 10% ethanol
blends at Michigan service station gasoline pumps is changed to be
consistent with national voluntary label standards..."

It is interesting, as I'd thought the first gasahol was 15% ethanol, but
there's no way to know whether local blends are ten, fifteen or some
random percent. Makes it hard to test performance, doesn't it?


In Michigan I think it's 10% and has been. Alcohol costs more than
gas now days. The only reason it's priced so low is due to subsidies.

Our early Gasohol was 10% here although back then I don't think there
was a standard. OTOH back then it took nearly 1 1/2 to two gallons of
fuel to make one gallon of ethanol.




Which then gets you 75% of the mileage of 'pure gasoline'.