Biggest bonehead moves flying into OSH?

"John T" wrote in message
m...

Are you sure about that survival rate? Here's one site that provides stats
disproving that theory (old, but the trends aren't likely to have changed
much since):

http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm


I don't see any statistics there regarding an unplanned 20+ mile swim in
Lake Michigan.

"John T" wrote in message
m...
"John Clear" wrote in message


There is surviving the ditching, and surviving the swim in Lake
Michigan. In the context of this discussion, I'd count failing
the second part as a failed ditching.

I agree and that would have been reflected in the stats quoted in the
link.


Did you read just the stats? The author states, "Still, as the overall
record shows, pilots somehow muddle through anyway. This is certainly due in
part to the fact that the majority of ditchings--86 percent, to be
exact--occur in what we call 'coastal and inshore water,' along an ocean
beach, in a sheltered bay not far from land or even a lake, a river, a pond
or a canal. Many of these ditching sites are within sight of land or boats
and the egressing pilots and crew are able to swim to shore or are quickly
picked up by helpful yachtsman." A ditching in the middle of Lake Michigan
would be in the remaining 14 percent.

On Jul 28, 6:53 am, " wrote:
The bigger issue remains the bone-heads who have no clue about the
arrival procedure, don't know anything about the NOTAM, and call in at
the 5 mile point on the Class D asking "for clearance" as one Canadian
Mooney last Sunday did (they were not too happy with him, but much to
my frustration the contollers worked with him rather than sending him
off somewhere else. It happens every year (and this year more than
once).

Like the guy landing on Friday when told: "cleared to land 27 green
dot" said: "Whats that mean?". Controller replied, after a very
audible sigh on the frequency, "see that big green dot on the runway?
land on it"

The other issue is those who get mixed up and try to land on the wrong
runway (like landing on 9 rather than the 50 people landing on 27),
which will get you a visit from the FSDO folks REAL QUICK. (which I
witnessed the other day up close).


Care to share? You witnessed the FSDO folks or the person landing on
9?


Brian
N9093K

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 16:34:59 GMT, "Steven P. McNicoll"
wrote:


"John T" wrote in message
om...

Are you sure about that survival rate? Here's one site that provides stats
disproving that theory (old, but the trends aren't likely to have changed
much since):

http://www.equipped.com/ditchingmyths.htm


I don't see any statistics there regarding an unplanned 20+ mile swim in
Lake Michigan.

Not to worry. The water is so cold even a good swimmer would sucumb to
hypothermia well before reaching shore. Going across from Ludington
it's 50 miles so the swim could be 25 miles.

On Fri, 27 Jul 2007 07:06:23 -0500, "Viperdoc"
wrote:
snip

Most of the pilots I know would acknowledge that flying over Lake Michigan
in a single is a calculated risk, and would do it high, with lots of gas,
and perhaps with survival gear. Some won't do it at all in a single, since
the survival rate after ditching is very low. Most wouldn't do it at night
or in IMC.

My preference would be to do it on an IFR fligh plan. IMC or VMC
should make little difference. In either case you fly it until it hits
the water. The lowest clearance I've ever had was 7,000. Usually it's
well above that. At 7000 I'm out never of gliding distance of shore.
You do have to be well aware of where "middle" is in relation to the
winds and don't forget to allow distance for the turn around if
necessary.

Multiply half the distance across by 5280 for statute miles (4591 for
nautical miles IIRC) and divide by your glide ratio. That will tell
you the minimum altitude AGL you need to be to always be within
gliding distance of shore.

VFR *should* use a "lake crossing flight plan"(if they are still
available) which is filed in conjunction with a VFR flight plan. The
Lake crossing portion is activated coming up on the shore. You are
expected to provided the time for "mid point" and you have a 5 minute
window in which you *must* call ATC at the mid point, or you are going
to receive a very expensive bill for SAR. At midpoint IIRC you are
requested for the ETA at the shore line and again call ATC.


Are there any other stories out there about questionable judgment flying
into OSH?

On 2007-07-28 04:53:54 -0700, " said:

The other issue is those who get mixed up and try to land on the wrong
runway (like landing on 9 rather than the 50 people landing on 27),
which will get you a visit from the FSDO folks REAL QUICK. (which I
witnessed the other day up close).

I hope you did not witness that visit TOO close. :-)


--
Waddling Eagle
World Famous Flight Instructor

On Sat, 28 Jul 2007 19:41:18 -0400, "Roger (K8RI)"
wrote:

VFR *should* use a "lake crossing flight plan"(if they are still
available) which is filed in conjunction with a VFR flight plan. The
Lake crossing portion is activated coming up on the shore. You are
expected to provided the time for "mid point" and you have a 5 minute
window in which you *must* call ATC at the mid point, or you are going
to receive a very expensive bill for SAR. At midpoint IIRC you are
requested for the ETA at the shore line and again call ATC.

I'm not familiar with the lake, so I was just going to ask about the
availability of such a service.

A VFR service is offered in the Cape Cod, Islands, and Long Island
area that works similar to what you describe, with position reporting.

This guy apparantly had been causing problems all the way back since
Fond du Lac, and had almost landed on 9, circled around over the
pioneer airport area (a no-no) and then entered the downwind for 27...

The tower boss asked where this particular pilot was on the field, so
the FSDO folks could come talk to him. It so happens that he is
directly behind us. We ask the guy to wait at his airplane, as someone
from the FAA wanted to talk to him. As he was tying down the aircraft
a van pulls up with the FSDO gentleman and a conversation ensues.
Unfortunately with all the aircraft noise, it was about 50 feet away
and out of earshot. But he did then dig deep into his aircraft pulling
out what looked like ALL of his documents.

I doubt he had a NOTAM.

Something is always interesting going on.

-Ryan

"Roger (K8RI)" wrote in message


I don't see any statistics there regarding an unplanned 20+ mile
swim in Lake Michigan.

Not to worry. The water is so cold even a good swimmer would sucumb to
hypothermia well before reaching shore. Going across from Ludington
it's 50 miles so the swim could be 25 miles.

Both of you are assuming no survival gear. I won't argue the point strongly
since I wouldn't be comfortable down low even with survival gear and one can
argue (safely, I think) that somebody willing to fly across that much water
at 2000 feet may well be willing to do so without any gear at all.

However, my point was simply to take issue with the OP's assertion that
"survival rate after ditching is very low". The stats simply don't back this
up. Sure we can always find exceptional situations that are almost
guaranteed to be fatal, but unless the OP clarifies otherwise, this
statement was nothing more than repeating an OWT. Ditching is quite
survivable.

--
John T
http://sage1solutions.com/blogs/TknoFlyer
http://sage1solutions.com/products
NEW! FlyteBalance v2.0 (W&B); FlyteLog v2.0 (Logbook)
____________________

"John T" wrote in message
m...

Both of you are assuming no survival gear. I won't argue the point
strongly since I wouldn't be comfortable down low even with survival gear
and one can argue (safely, I think) that somebody willing to fly across
that much water at 2000 feet may well be willing to do so without any gear
at all.

However, my point was simply to take issue with the OP's assertion that
"survival rate after ditching is very low". The stats simply don't back
this up. Sure we can always find exceptional situations that are almost
guaranteed to be fatal, but unless the OP clarifies otherwise, this
statement was nothing more than repeating an OWT. Ditching is quite
survivable.


The OP's assertion had nothing to do with the ditching.