Biggest bonehead moves flying into OSH?

On Fri, 3 Aug 2007 16:35:53 -0400, "Morgans"
wrote:


"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.

It's not the possession of the NOTAM, nor reading it that counts. It's
the flying in the last few miles that matters.

So how about a panel of judges evaluating everyone's approach and
landing perfomance and assessing appropriate fines?
Just kidding... Just kidding...

I am amazed at some of the suggestions here (this and other threads).
Do we really expect ATC to turn away someone for not knowing the
procedure?

Pilot: Oshkosh tower, experimental 5678X ... uhhh ... approaching the
airport ... uhhh ... from the west. Landing.
ATC: Experimental 5678X, what is the third word in the second
paragraph on page 5 of the NOTAM?
Pilot: Huh?
ATC: Experimental 5678X, fly heading 270 for 30 minutes, then resume
own navigation.
Pilot: But ... but I want to land at OSH.
ATC: Unable.

This is a *show* we're talking about. *EAA* show.
They want everybody there. Including (or especially?) a guy who built
his own plane in the barn and avoids airspace where talking to ATC is
required. He probably doesn't even know that the NOTAM exists and for
him compliance with FAR 91.103 means squinting at the sky.

Having *most* pilots follow the NOTAM keeps things failry orderly and
helps ATC accomodate (within limits) the others.
Seems to be working quite well. 12,000 aircraft landed and took off in
just few days without a major accident.

- Tom

Those with a copy of the NOTAM land runway 18, those without land
runway 90...those of you landing on runway 90 have your wallet out,
your stupidity just cost you a fine. We only accept cash and major
credit cards (a 4% surcharge for CC payments will be added to your
fine).

To bad there wasn't some way of only accepting pilots that have been
briefed or have/understand the NOTAM. Some sort of reservation number
which you can download a receipt of to post inside your windshield.
Those without would be charged a 'failure to comply fee'; 'damn I'm
dumb fee'; 'forgot follow the procedure to pull my head out of my a_ _
fee', this list could go on for ever.

Even a student pilot (at least I was) is required to obtain proof of
landing during a cross country. Why couldn't folks be directed to an
intermediate designated stop enroute to get briefed on the NOTAM. I
know Iowa City would be agreeable with this, means maybe a few more
would spend the night and or purchase fuel. Those who fail to follow
procedures have to stand in line to talk to the FSDO upon arrival at
OSH. This procedure would also help prevent all those who arrive after
the airshow starts and are forced to orbit or land elsewhere..."You
are aware that OSH closes for arrivals in fifteen minutes, you can
either stay here or land at an alternate...whatcha gonna do?"

On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, "Morgans" wrote:
"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.
--
Jim in NC

Jim...

That is probably accurate (well I have done it a few times in a lot of
airplanes so If I can read the NOTAM I guess everyone can (LOL)...

Still the above suggestion is an idea worth talking about. I just
came up with another one on my jog...

Having been to OSH in a few years guess I could check the web site...

Does EAA have a "video" on its web site with an example of an arrival?

Robert

I agree with you Tom that this is a show. However this show continues
to expand in the number of aircraft that attend. What eventually will
happen is a chain of events that result in a fatality accident over
the city of Oshkosh. Years ago a jet crashed into a neighborhood near
the field, this raised concerns about the amount of air traffic. If
two airplanes collide in the pattern and plummet into an area such as
a shopping center, these concerns will have negative effects on EAA.
Add in the number of new inexperienced pilots that will begin to
attend will compound this issue. All we want to see is a better way to
ensure pilots are aware of the procedures to make flying in/out of
this event as safe as possible. If everyone is on the same page,
things will continue to be as safe as they have been. As was discussed
before the show, go out and slow fly your aircraft...know how to do
it! Perfect sense to do especially considering the mix of performance
levels of aircraft and pilots in the pattern. It amazes me how many
color blind pilots there are...blue Cessna land on the green
dot....huh? I learned to fly at a military aero club. The rules then
were you had to have an endorsement to do certain things or go certain
places with the clubs aircraft. Maybe pilots attending need an
endorsement to attend EAA. Something as simple as stopping at
designated fields to review and be briefed on the NOTAM. This is a win
win situation...you get to review the NOTAM and take a potty break
before you get tied up in traffic.

That is a tradition rooted in antiquity, but not in regulation.

Jim

--
"If you think you can, or think you can't, you're right."
--Henry Ford




Even a student pilot (at least I was) is required to obtain proof of
landing during a cross country.

On Aug 3, 6:35 pm, Luke Skywalker wrote:
On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, "Morgans" wrote:



"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.
--
Jim in NC

Jim...

That is probably accurate (well I have done it a few times in a lot of
airplanes so If I can read the NOTAM I guess everyone can (LOL)...

Still the above suggestion is an idea worth talking about. I just
came up with another one on my jog...

Having been to OSH in a few years guess I could check the web site...

Does EAA have a "video" on its web site with an example of an arrival?

Robert

Not that I am aware of. But if they aren't viewing the website, will a
video inspire them to do so.But I like your thinking.

What about sending everyone a DVD with procedures and video on arrival
procedures. They could add other things as well. Like a briefing from
the FAA, NTSB; show schedules, highlights from the previous year.
Charge a token fee to cover postage an production. Or see if a sponsor
will offset the costs allowing them to advertise on it. EAA could do a
mass mailing 30 days prior to the event.

On Aug 3, 8:15 pm, Hawkeye wrote:
On Aug 3, 6:35 pm, Luke Skywalker wrote:





On Aug 3, 3:35 pm, "Morgans" wrote:

"Luke Skywalker" wrote

Just "right" off the bat that strikes me as a suggestion with some
merit...

again just my first thought after reading it...a landing at a sat
field would be required with some record taken of who did what
(including N numbers) and if one lands at OSH without that briefing
and your N number isnt on the paper (or try to land and this part
might be difficult to enforce but once on the deck it should be
easier) then there are some serious FAA FSDO problems.

An out landing is not necessary for those who have the NOTAM, and have read
(and understand) it.

The idea of requiring that the NOTAM be on board is what needs to be
enacted, and enforced.
--
Jim in NC

Jim...

That is probably accurate (well I have done it a few times in a lot of
airplanes so If I can read the NOTAM I guess everyone can (LOL)...

Still the above suggestion is an idea worth talking about. I just
came up with another one on my jog...

Having been to OSH in a few years guess I could check the web site...

Does EAA have a "video" on its web site with an example of an arrival?

Robert

Not that I am aware of. But if they aren't viewing the website, will a
video inspire them to do so.But I like your thinking.

What about sending everyone a DVD with procedures and video on arrival
procedures. They could add other things as well. Like a briefing from
the FAA, NTSB; show schedules, highlights from the previous year.
Charge a token fee to cover postage an production. Or see if a sponsor
will offset the costs allowing them to advertise on it. EAA could do a
mass mailing 30 days prior to the event.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

that is the spirit of what I was thinking of. Why not have something
that is downloadable on the web site that hass all those things and
actually gets out and flies an arrival etc.

That is done all the time in the real world.

I think of OSH like in Part 121 where you have complex special and
complex simple (etc) airports. To go into them you have to have some
pre training and today that is done at most airlines by watching a
video, some you can even get it off the web.

Robert

Tom L. wrote:

I am amazed at some of the suggestions here (this and other threads).
Do we really expect ATC to turn away someone for not knowing the
procedure?

Yes. I think exactly that was suggested as a way to make sure the NOTAM is
known and this make OSH safer.

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