Favorite Av Weather sites

Ron Natalie wrote:

It does if you ask and they fail to give you the info. That is fairly
common here with fires. These TFR's pop up, expand and move with some
regularity. There's always someone flying thru where they shouldn't.
But if the pilot asked AFSS about TFR's and they were not given the
proper info they are off the hook. Same goes for if I tell a pilot
the wrong info. That's on me, not on the pilot. That has also happened.


Not the way things work on this side of the country.


So you have these problems AND you're a blue state? My condolences.

Newps wrote:


Ron Natalie wrote:


It does if you ask and they fail to give you the info. That is
fairly common here with fires. These TFR's pop up, expand and move
with some regularity. There's always someone flying thru where they
shouldn't. But if the pilot asked AFSS about TFR's and they were not
given the proper info they are off the hook. Same goes for if I tell
a pilot the wrong info. That's on me, not on the pilot. That has
also happened.



Not the way things work on this side of the country.



So you have these problems AND you're a blue state? My condolences.

Nope, I'm in a RED state. And it's the facist policies of the RED
administration that's causing the problems.

"Dave Butler" wrote in message
...
OtisWinslow wrote:
I find ADDS the most useful. I also use DUATS because I need a legal
briefing.

Legal? Maybe you mean that you think there is an audit trail, so if
necessary
you could prove that you actually got a briefing. I think that too, but
I'm not
sure why. I couldn't find anything on the DUAT providers' web sites that
says
they provide that service (audit trail).

From the DUATS faq section:

http://www.duats.com/faq.html#legalbrief

When getting a briefing on DUATS, is this considered to be a legal
pre-flight briefing, with the same standing as a briefing I'd get by calling
Flight Service?
Yes. A DUATS route briefing contains the same elements as a route briefing
which is provided by an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded by DUATS, and
your receipt of the data can be proven, should the need arise. (Of course,
this requires you to sign on to DUATS using your own DUATS Access Code or
Personal Access code!) The DUAT service is paid for by the FAA, and is
certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live Flight Service Specialist
for pre-flight briefings.

Brad Zeigler wrote:
"Dave Butler" wrote in message
I couldn't find anything on the DUAT providers' web sites that
says they provide that service (audit trail).

From the DUATS faq section:

http://www.duats.com/faq.html#legalbrief

When getting a briefing on DUATS, is this considered to be a legal
pre-flight briefing, with the same standing as a briefing I'd get by calling
Flight Service?
Yes. A DUATS route briefing contains the same elements as a route briefing
which is provided by an FAA Briefer. The briefing is recorded by DUATS, and
your receipt of the data can be proven, should the need arise. (Of course,
this requires you to sign on to DUATS using your own DUATS Access Code or
Personal Access code!) The DUAT service is paid for by the FAA, and is
certified by the FAA as being equivalent to a live Flight Service Specialist
for pre-flight briefings.

Thanks, Brad! Dave

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

It does if you ask and they fail to give you the info. That is fairly
common here with fires. These TFR's pop up, expand and move with some
regularity. There's always someone flying thru where they shouldn't. But
if the pilot asked AFSS about TFR's and they were not given the proper
info they are off the hook. Same goes for if I tell a pilot the wrong
info. That's on me, not on the pilot. That has also happened.

Not the way things work on this side of the country.

Really? Is there any documented case of a successful enforcement action
against a pilot who violated a TFR because a briefer failed to mention the
TFR when asked?

Thanks,
Gary

Well .. why does it say on the DUATS FAQ that it is. They lying? They're
paid
by the FAA. I would contend that having a DUATS briefing would sure go
a long way to saving your hide, but the FAA can do anything they want with
you if you bust a reg. My choice is to have the briefing on my side.

We're required to make ourselves aware of all available information relevant
to a flight. I look at ADDS, print a Duats briefing, check NOTAMS, check
the graphical TFRs, talk to Center and Flight Watch along the way. So far
that's kept me pretty aware
of all the things that might pop up.

So I'm not sure, Ron, where you're going with this. You're telling us all
the
things we've been taught are crap and we'll just get busted anyway. With
all your insight .. I'd sure like to have you list what you think each and
everyone
of us should do before we fly so we'll be totally legal.



"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...
Newps wrote:


That's no less or more legal than anything else.

You're screwed if you don't get all the appropriate information.
The fact that a government or government-contracted provider was
contacted and they failed to provide the information will not
save your hide in an enforcement action.

OtisWinslow wrote:
Well .. why does it say on the DUATS FAQ that it is. They lying? They're
paid
by the FAA. I would contend that having a DUATS briefing would sure go
a long way to saving your hide, but the FAA can do anything they want with
you if you bust a reg. My choice is to have the briefing on my side.

It will go NOWHERE TO SAVE YOUR HIDE if you violate one of the TSA-based
restrictions. DUAT can claim what ever they want...the truth of the matter
is you're going to be grounded if you violate these restrictions regardless
of what FSS, DUAT, or ATC tells you.

Welcome to the post-911 airspace system.

t will go NOWHERE TO SAVE YOUR HIDE if you violate one of the TSA-based
restrictions. DUAT can claim what ever they want...the truth of the matter
is you're going to be grounded if you violate these restrictions regardless

I would not worry about it. I call FSS file IFR and stay in contact with ATC.
Cannot do more that that.
Comments appreciated
Hank

"Ron Natalie" wrote in message
m...

is you're going to be grounded if you violate these restrictions
regardless
of what FSS, DUAT, or ATC tells you.


You just repeated what I said .. the FAA can do what they want to us. So are
you simply advocating we give up flying? I asked for what YOU in all
your wisdom think we should do to keep from flying into a TFR and being
busted since you've announced that no one in the govt can tell us where
these secret TFRs are with any reliablity and we're responsible for what
we don't know and no one can tell us. Who do you advocate we should
talk to? You've told us we're all stupid for relying on the normal sources
of info .. clue us in there, SuperPilot. What do you know that we don't????