Best performing Vario?

Unfortunately, this question will not be fairly answered as to "which vario
is best" in this forum. What you are going to get is a lot of opinions based
only on what variometers the responders have actually used and possibly what
variometer they used that "they" liked better of the few systems they may
have actually had a chance to use. Few is anyone here will have had an
opportunity to realistically flown with or more over tested in any side by
side comparison all of the most common types, also most will have used
variometers in conjunction with other systems connected to or compared with
what was in place at the time they may have flown with that system.
Clearly variometer technology has changed over the years from the first
pellet variometers to modern pressure transducer and GPS coupled systems.
Many manufacturers today can produce good variometers with very common
electronic parts and devices, added features and connectability to extended
devices will normally be the determining factors in what systems the user
chooses along with a proven history of reliability and support.
tim
Please visit the Wings & Wheels website at www.wingsandwheels.com


"Craig R." wrote in message
...
In your opinion, what was the best performing vario you have ever used?
Specifically, the one that got you centered in and to the top of the
thermal in the least amount of time.

Let's ignore products because they have the latest "bells and whistles"
add ons, latest technology, sexy appearances, or best computer processor.
Basic performance is the only criteria.

I've heard some say the legacy Cambridge units and some say the Sage
mechanical.

Which unit did it for you?

On Saturday, September 22, 2012 11:58:15 AM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote:
In your opinion, what was the best performing vario you have ever used? Specifically, the one that got you centered in and to the top of the thermal in the least amount of time.

I recently purchased the LX NAV V7 vario coupled to the Naviter Oudie with See You Mobile.

This setup is like CHEATING it is so easy to center a thermal. The vario is accurate with multiple averagers, and with the Thermal Assist function, it tells you when and where to move your circling to, so you can nail the core of the thermal.

I've used a Cambridge 302, an LNAV, and several others. But this setup is in my opinion in a league of its own.

Here is a picture of the thermal assist:
http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/seeyo...lAssistant.jpg

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:06:41 PM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote:
On Saturday, September 22, 2012 11:58:15 AM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote:

In your opinion, what was the best performing vario you have ever used? Specifically, the one that got you centered in and to the top of the thermal in the least amount of time.



I recently purchased the LX NAV V7 vario coupled to the Naviter Oudie with See You Mobile.



This setup is like CHEATING it is so easy to center a thermal. The vario is accurate with multiple averagers, and with the Thermal Assist function, it tells you when and where to move your circling to, so you can nail the core of the thermal.



I've used a Cambridge 302, an LNAV, and several others. But this setup is in my opinion in a league of its own.



Here is a picture of the thermal assist:

http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/seeyo...lAssistant.jpg

I may be wrong, but I think Winpilot had the thermal assistant first (at least, has had it for 10 years or so) and it still works better than the SYM version: clearer presentation, more information, comes and goes when you want it to.

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 4:55:02 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:06:41 PM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote: On Saturday, September 22, 2012 11:58:15 AM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote: In your opinion, what was the best performing vario you have ever used? Specifically, the one that got you centered in and to the top of the thermal in the least amount of time. I recently purchased the LX NAV V7 vario coupled to the Naviter Oudie with See You Mobile. This setup is like CHEATING it is so easy to center a thermal. The vario is accurate with multiple averagers, and with the Thermal Assist function, it tells you when and where to move your circling to, so you can nail the core of the thermal. I've used a Cambridge 302, an LNAV, and several others. But this setup is in my opinion in a league of its own. Here is a picture of the thermal assist: http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/seeyo...lAssistant.jpg I may be wrong, but I think Winpilot had the thermal assistant first (at least, has had it for 10 years or so) and it still works better than the SYM version: clearer presentation, more information, comes and goes when you want it to.

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 4:55:02 PM UTC-7, jfitch wrote:
On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 12:06:41 PM UTC-7, (unknown) wrote: On Saturday, September 22, 2012 11:58:15 AM UTC-4, Craig R. wrote: In your opinion, what was the best performing vario you have ever used? Specifically, the one that got you centered in and to the top of the thermal in the least amount of time. I recently purchased the LX NAV V7 vario coupled to the Naviter Oudie with See You Mobile. This setup is like CHEATING it is so easy to center a thermal. The vario is accurate with multiple averagers, and with the Thermal Assist function, it tells you when and where to move your circling to, so you can nail the core of the thermal. I've used a Cambridge 302, an LNAV, and several others. But this setup is in my opinion in a league of its own. Here is a picture of the thermal assist: http://www.cumulus-soaring.com/seeyo...lAssistant.jpg I may be wrong, but I think Winpilot had the thermal assistant first (at least, has had it for 10 years or so) and it still works better than the SYM version: clearer presentation, more information, comes and goes when you want it to.

Unfortunately I have to second this statement above.
Besides WinPilot I have tried SeeYou and now XCSoar, they are good but don't come close.
What realy is most unfurtunate that WinPilot does not support their system any longer.
I fly with a 302 which I use for audio and rely on a Sage for visual that I find extremely reliable and accurate.

On Sunday, 23 September 2012 07:01:13 UTC+10, Tim Taylor wrote:
Not sure what happened that they didn't make the transition over the last few years to the modern systems. B50 is still one of the best values for a low cost panel, about $500 to $600 and a PDA/PNA and it will work nearly as we'll as the new systems.

Nothing "happened" Tim. We replaced the B50 with the B500 in late 2005 and the B40 (over 1000 sold) with the B400. The B500 and now the B600 and B800 even incorporate GPS navigation, wind and a glide computer. Otherwise they perform the same vario functions but with some extras like the little green light and subtle audio change to tell you when the climb is better than the 20 second average.

The B500 has recently been replaced by the B600(linear vario scale) and B800 (log scale expanded in the +/- 2 knot range) but otherwise similar except for some new features like the visual and audio comparison of the running average climb rate to the whole of thermal so far average, to tell you when to think about leaving, a real Performance Index to tell you how each glide from the top of the last thermal to current position compares to the clean glider at the same weight(helps with "bugs" setting) and the B800 and B600 have
bi-directional comms with color moving map glide computers like XCSoar which means you can make changes on the glide program and have them go straight to the vario and also the other way round.
A Vertica V2 (basically like new Oudie with new bright screen but HALF the price)plus a B600 or B800 main unit makes a very low cost complete X country vario and moving map glide computer system when running XCsoar.

If you want just a vario(no speed to fly) as a standby(mechanical replacement) or for the club single or two seater have a look at our B300 Club vario, B400 vario with standby battery pack, the B700(like B400 but with log scale and both 20 sec and whole of climb average and comparator), the ultimate standby vario which you'll leave running all the time and soon the B900(B700 with linear scale). We've also bench tested the B200 audio add on for mechanical varios as I know some of you won't let go of your favorite mechanical vario until it is pried out of your cold, dead hands :-)

We're also working on some advanced concepts which will make all existing varios totally obsolete but they will be able to be added to our B600 and B800.

I will third that! SeeYou Mobile has really missed out on making a better climb maximizer. WinPilot has the best by 10x. I fly the same with a 302 and the Sage mechanical. The 302 with WinPilot is one of the best in weak conditions for finding and centering scrappy lift or very weak lift.

I hope that the SYM guys will look seriously at improving the thermal maximizer and the controls of how it starts and allowing toggling in flight easily.

On 9/25/2012 10:11 PM, Tim Taylor wrote:
I will third that! SeeYou Mobile has really missed out on making a
better climb maximizer. WinPilot has the best by 10x. I fly the same
with a 302 and the Sage mechanical. The 302 with WinPilot is one of
the best in weak conditions for finding and centering scrappy lift or
very weak lift.

I hope that the SYM guys will look seriously at improving the thermal
maximizer and the controls of how it starts and allowing toggling in
flight easily.

I assigned a PDA button to starting it manually for times it my settings
didn't have it start automatically; tapping the screen would dismiss it,
of course.

--
Eric Greenwell - Washington State, USA (change ".netto" to ".us" to
email me)

On Tuesday, September 25, 2012 10:11:57 PM UTC-7, Tim Taylor wrote:
I will third that! SeeYou Mobile has really missed out on making a better climb maximizer. WinPilot has the best by 10x. I fly the same with a 302 and the Sage mechanical. The 302 with WinPilot is one of the best in weak conditions for finding and centering scrappy lift or very weak lift.



I hope that the SYM guys will look seriously at improving the thermal maximizer and the controls of how it starts and allowing toggling in flight easily.

To elaborate a little: even the SYM developers know it is crap, and suggest not using it. I quote from their manual:

"We will be happy if you continue to enjoy soaring and if you never find the need to use the Thermal Assistant at all :-)"

As Eric has said in another thread, on a motor glider the vario TE is messed up by the prop wash. I find this true on my 26E: there is reported a more or less constant 37 knot headwind, the vario oscillates rapidly and unevenly +/- 6 knots, and centering a thermal requires extreme concentration if you can do it at all. But it can be done, and pretty accurately and quickly, using the Winpilot thermal assistant, even with the crap data! Not a chance with SYM....

The data they collect is identical, but the presentation on SYM is lacking, also the algorithm for starting it and stopping it is bad. On Winpilot, it comes on at about 1/4 circle, and is providing valuable information by 1/2 or 3/4 circle. It dismisses itself within a few seconds of leaving the circle. During the circle you have a graph of climb/time and an indication of MC and average for the day. Very easy to see your trends at a glance. The 3D graph of climb rate is again easy to interpret at a glance, and allows you to judge the quality of the data and make adjustments accordingly. All these are absent on SYM....

Too bad Winpilot is no longer supported. I wish he would make it work on Oudie....

On Wednesday, 26 September 2012 17:00:54 UTC+1, jfitch wrote:



To elaborate a little: even the SYM developers know it is crap, and suggest not using it. I quote from their manual:



"We will be happy if you continue to enjoy soaring and if you never find the need to use the Thermal Assistant at all :-)"

Not sure how you made that conclusion from the quoted statement from the SYM manual. The SeeYou developers are simply saying that the thermal assistant is there to use if you want it and I do sometimes use it and have no problem. I do not have it set to switch on automatically. I press a button to make it appear and I tap the screen to make it go away. Seems pretty easy to me and I am often surprised to find that it improves my centering of an awkward thermal.

John Galloway