IFR Cancellation Question

Robert Chambers wrote:



Really, then how does the system know you landed and not crashed on
approach?


ATC as in approach takes no overt action. The tower controller hits the
land line to approach and says "N12345 is on the ground" end of IFR flight.




He does no such thing. No calls, whatsoever. There's no need to.

In article ,
Newps wrote:

Ron Natalie wrote:
Newps wrote:



A Lieberma wrote:



IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???


ATC takes no overt action to cancel an IFR aircraft landing at a
towered field. You just land.


Really, then how does the system know you landed and not crashed on
approach?

The tower will know if you landed. What did you think happened?

What happens (I'm mostly thinking helicopters here) if you land someplace
within the CDSA that's off-airport and out of sight of the tower? For
example, at HPN, we've got a private helipad not far from the airport. I
don't imagine that's too unusual.

Newps wrote:


Robert Chambers wrote:



Really, then how does the system know you landed and not crashed on
approach?


ATC as in approach takes no overt action. The tower controller hits
the land line to approach and says "N12345 is on the ground" end of
IFR flight.


He does no such thing. No calls, whatsoever. There's no need to.

I've been in a tower cab when this happened. I've also been there when
they've hit the button, called the tracon and gotten a release.

Were they special occasions? I don't know I don't spend a lot of time
visiting.

Explain how it happens at your location.

A Lieberma wrote:

Correct me if I am wrong as I have never been in the ADIZ, but in the ADIZ,
you will hear IFR cancellation received, but you WILL NOT hear "Squawk VFR,
have good day"

Correct, they usually will remind you to "remain on this squawk until on
the ground" but I don't think there's any obligation that the do this.

Newps wrote:

Really, then how does the system know you landed and not crashed on
approach?

The tower will know if you landed. What did you think happened?


I don't know how it happens, but the requirement is that they're
supposed to notice whether I have arrived at my destination not
whether I was handed off by approach. This means one of two
things:

1. Tower must tell the system that I've landed.
2. Tower must tell the system that I haven't landed.

Roy Smith wrote:



What happens (I'm mostly thinking helicopters here) if you land someplace
within the CDSA that's off-airport and out of sight of the tower? For
example, at HPN, we've got a private helipad not far from the airport. I
don't imagine that's too unusual.

The tower would have you report to them and that would be the end of it.

Robert Chambers wrote:


He does no such thing. No calls, whatsoever. There's no need to.


I've been in a tower cab when this happened. I've also been there when
they've hit the button, called the tracon and gotten a release.

Were they special occasions? I don't know I don't spend a lot of time
visiting.

Explain how it happens at your location.

When I worked at what is now a class D it happens as I said. Airplane
lands and I tell him to contact ground control. No calls to the
facility that was our approach control. There was no need to. For
releases it depends on what you have worked out with your approach
control. At that facility we had to call for each release. There could
just as easily have been a letter of agreement allowing me to release
IFR aircraft on certain headings at my discretion. I work at a class C
now. The tower controller is, by definition, an approach controller
here. Everything is automatic. The only time you call for a release is
when you want to launch someone opposite direction and then only if you
are running standard procedures. Many of us just make a quick verbal
agreement between tower and approach that I as a tower controller can
launch aircraft anytime, anywhere and the approach controller will
accept them.

Ron Natalie wrote:

Newps wrote:

Really, then how does the system know you landed and not crashed on
approach?


The tower will know if you landed. What did you think happened?



I don't know how it happens, but the requirement is that they're
supposed to notice whether I have arrived at my destination not
whether I was handed off by approach. This means one of two
things:

1. Tower must tell the system that I've landed.
2. Tower must tell the system that I haven't landed.


The tower is "the system". At a tower without radar the approach
control will call on the landline and tell them about the IFR inbound.
At the agreed upon time/place the approach control tells the aircraft to
contact tower. Aircraft lands. Tower goes back to conversation on how
bad the Bears quarterback really is. The only time the tower calls the
approach control back is if something unusual happens. Aircraft never
calls tower at the expected time, aircraft has some kind of problem that
requires him to manuver unexpectedly thereby possibly affecting
separation of others inbound or outbound, etc. A normal approach and
landing is what's expected.
In a tower with radar all the above happens without a call on the
landline. The transfer of information is automated.

A Lieberma wrote:

Ok, makes sense on the radar services being terminated, but the IFR
clearance still applies for airspace seperation?


Still IFR.



IFR would be then cancelled once wheels touch ground???


IFR is cancelled upon landing.

Robert Chambers wrote:

Our tower is special, there's lots of things they "should" do but don't.


What tower is that?