It was 62 years ago today...

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 22:52:16 GMT, Rob Perkins wrote:

And I
don't remember the day, month, or year for "Kristallnacht", only that
it predated the Blitzkrieg into Poland. Am I wrong?

The Reichskristallnacht was the first big 'testing' how the system of
surpressing the Jewish people will work. The nazis (with the help of the
general polulation) burned down Synagoges etc. - it has no direct
connection or cause to the invasion of Poland.

#m
--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 22:55:27 GMT, Rob Perkins wrote:

On a related issue, I had a curious experience watching Swiss
television on the 20th anniversary of the moon landing. The producers
noted it and spent the bulk of the hour talking about the Swiss
experiment that went with Aldrin and Armstrong to the moon.

It was an interesting shift in perspectives, to say the least.


well, I'd put it this way: the landing on the moon, the whole program etc.
is well covered in many documentations. I read the first time now from you
about a Swiss experiment. And this would also be the case for many folks
from Switzreland, I guess. So this would bring another light to the story
and make the event more interesting for the average viewer.

(just like I am always thinking - whenever I see the space shuttle - that
the heat shield ceramic plates on the space shuttle are made in Austria
[about 1 hour drive by car from here]; it brings a related light to the
event)

Rob

#m

--
http://www.declareyourself.com/fyr_candidates.php
http://www.subterrane.com/bush.shtml

You mean: USA wouldn't have joined into the war without the Japanese
agression? I doubt that the USA would have remained neutral as there have
been some
attackes by german submarines in US ports and en-route on the Atlantic and
the US more and more supporting England.

Well, in many ways Hitler was a fool (attacking the U.S.S.R before finishing
off Great Britain, for example, was just plain stupid), but I don't think he
would have drawn the U.S. into the war by choice.

The absolute fury of the American population at the Japanese attack's
audacity was critical in keeping public support for the war stoked. As you
may have noticed, public support for a war is critical in America... Would
the American public have supported going to war against Japan -- and,
particularly, Germany -- *without* being attacked first? From what my
parents have told me, the answer to that question was "no".

Thus, Pearl Harbor truly marked the first day in a long march toward
Austria's freedom...
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

On Mon, 8 Dec 2003 21:42:58 -0000, "Phil McAverty"
wrote:

It reminds me of another movie U571 which misrepresents historical fact. But
hey, why let truth get in the way of a good story.

In their interviews I think the directors and producers of U571 made
clear that they were more interested in a good story.

Rob, who rented the DVD :-)

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 22:22:57 GMT, Martin Hotze
wrote:

besides: this was the last time the USA declared war.

I think y'all are going to have to recognize that formal declarations
of war are not going to happen anymore. The mess of WWI and WWII,
drawing *everyone* into the conflict because of cross-alliances,
taught us all that formal declarations only make the conflict bigger.

If the troops are ordered moved or deployed, and the Congress funds it
before or after the fact, that's your declaration. Lump it. :-(

(And don't get *me* wrong. When the bullets fly, I'm mourning too.)

Roosevelt was one of the
principal founders of the United Nations, after all.

but the UN had nothing to do with our peace treaty (at least: we had one,
Germany had none)

I wasn't thinking of the Austrian peace treaty, about which I really
have no opinion, except to be glad that it was a free nation. (And may
I say, a couple of your border guards can be real martinets.)

first troops to free Vienna where Russian troops.

They liberated Vienna, but Austria and Vienna were both partitioned
among the Allies. Seeds of that UN thing again.

Rob

On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 22:18:21 GMT, Martin Hotze
wrote:

You mean: USA wouldn't have joined into the war without the Japanese
agression?

Correct. The isolationist factions were strong enough to keep us clear
of the main confrontation even though, as you point out, there were
some submarine attacks. Pearl Harbor made our swing voters willing to
be drafted.

We probably would have defended our own borders, nothing more. Think
of the immediate response to the U.S.S. Cole; it took the deaths of
civilian noncombatants to push us to where we are today.

Rob

"Jay Honeck" wrote in message
news:FB7Bb.469677$Tr4.1294247@attbi_s03...
As you
may have noticed, public support for a war is critical in America...

Are you distinguishing declarations of war from the many police actions
since WWII?

Michael

As you
may have noticed, public support for a war is critical in America...

Are you distinguishing declarations of war from the many police actions
since WWII?

Not for the sake of this discussion.. Public support for ANY kind of
prolonged military action is necessary in a democracy.

Had the U.S. not been attacked by Japan, it's unlikely that we would have
declared war on Germany alone. In this scenario, had Hitler then not
attacked Russia, the U.K. would surely have fallen -- and Martin would
probably not be hooked up to the internet today.
--
Jay Honeck
Iowa City, IA
Pathfinder N56993
www.AlexisParkInn.com
"Your Aviation Destination"

"Rob Perkins" wrote in message
...

Or, for a closer analogy, the day
Britain declared war.

September 1939?

I take your point, though. The order of the events in time is more
important than the exact date.

Now we have that out of the way, I'll take Jay's point. Let's honor the
Greatest Generation and the leaders who swayed nations into standing firm.
The commonality of purpose extended to the home front too.

Not all of them committed acts of heroism - my own father spent most of the
duration in a hammock in New Delhi, if you believe his own account - but
this was a time when we all did stand together and being part of a nation
really stood for something.

As it happens, Britons don't particularly mark Sep 3, although they are
probably reminded in some way each year. Armistice Day, Nov 11, is the
annual remembrance.

-- David Brooks

"Saryon" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 08 Dec 2003 19:53:57 GMT, Rob Perkins
wrote:


fleet based at Pearl Harbor, Hawaii, which shook the U.S. out of
protectionism and brought it into the second World War.

(Y'know, that tiny thing Germans don't study anymore?)

Did we give up when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?

You must be on a roll ;-))