towing a sailplane trailer / vehicle

No problems with my Outback - '95 and '02 - both automatics.
Mileage did suck in hilly terrain. I put some extra air in the tires
to stiffen things up a bit.
Second the brakes comment.

Tim
1FL


On Oct 29, 10:38*pm, ryanglover1969 wrote:
Hello all. I am looking to buy a new vehicle, mainly for work related
reasons. Something like an AWD Subaru Outback would be perfect for
work.

So I'm wondering what you all have to say about towing my sailplane
trailer with a Subaru Outback, which is a 4 cylinder vehicle. That's
the issue I need answered. Would a 4 cylinder do the job? Or would it
tear up the transmission.

I don't want a lager vehicle for MPG reasons.

Thanks, Ryan

Ryan,

I tow my glider with a 2005 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 liter four
cylinder, non-turbocharged gasoline engine, with 4 speed automatic
transmission.

Before I found the car, I first towed my trailer with a friend's car,
fully loaded with glider, tail dolly, tow-out gear, wash bucket, wing
stand, folding chair, etc, to a truck stop and weighed the trailer on
the scales. Result: 2,040 lbs! A LOT heavier than I had
anticipated. Tongue weight is 180 lbs. That, too is a lot more than
anticipated. But once I knew the weight of the trailer, I knew what I
had to look for in a tow vehicle. Oh, by the way, the "tow vehicle"
was going to be my every day driver, too. So, it had to be affordable
to purchase and to drive. And the Subaru fit the bill.

The Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs (in America. Seems to be
different in different countries. Lawyers at work?) if the trailer
has brakes. Only 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes. My
trailer, a Swan, has brakes. Max tongue weight is 200 lbs.

While my trailer weighs less than the maximum allowable tow weight, I
did have an automatic transmission oil cooler installed. Necessary?
I don't know. But I had it installed anyway. Subaru doesn't offer an
auxillary transmission cooler (the stock setup routes transmission oil
to a section of the radiator for cooling), so I had an independant
transmission shop install it for me.

Here on the east coast of USA, the Subaru tows the trailer just fine.
I have towed it up the steep climbs on I-77 through North Carolina,
Virginia and West Virginia without problems. On those climbs, I
pulled the transmission down to third gear and continued on at about
50 mph. I've pulled it up to New Castle, VA without any problems.
Now, one caveat is that on all these trips, the outside temperature
was cool. I've never had the opportunity to tow it up through the
mountains on a hot day. There is a transmission temperature "idiot
light" that is supposed to come on when the transmission gets hot.
I've never seen it come on. Not really sure if that means the tranny
is toast once it comes on, or just saying to pull over and let it cool
down before preceeding on...

Gas mileage towing varies from 20 - 22 mpg. Without the trailer, on
the highway, it gets about 26 mpg. As an everyday driver, it does
just fine. No, it's not as refined as my previous Honda Accord. It's
noiser in the cabin, less room, somewhat "cheaper" looking than either
the Accord or my wife's Hyundai Sonata. But here's the main point:
It is rated to tow my trailer. Nothing else matters.

Since it has the non-turbo engine, it burns regular ocatane gasoline.
Go with the turbo option, and you have to use premium gasoline. Your
fun factor goes up, but so does the gas bill.

The new Outbacks can be bought, in America, with a new 3.5 liter six
cylinder engine and it uses regular octane gasoline. I think in the
previous six, you had to use premium. If you get the four cylinder, I
think you get a continuously variable transmission, and I don't know
how that would work out for towing.

In Europe, the Forester is available with a four cylinder turbo-
diesel. Too bad we don't have that available in America. Not yet,
anyway.

So, I can recommend a Subaru for towing your trailer.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

As a Brit, I just love these US discussions about the impossibilty of
towing glider trailers with anything that doesn't weigh at least 3
tons, with a huge gas guzzling V8 engine. Due to our Government's
dependence on fuel duties, which are extortionate, most of us own
quite modest sized cars, but we still tow glider trailers around. A
1.6 litre vehicle will tow a single seater glider trailer perfectly
well and 2.0 litres for a two seater trailer. It is probably best to
keep the speed below 60 mph though (legal speed limit for trailers
anyway in the UK) . Automatic gearboxes may need an oil cooler fitted.

Derek Copeland


On Oct 30, 12:33*pm, rlovinggood wrote:
Ryan,

I tow my glider with a 2005 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 liter four
cylinder, non-turbocharged gasoline engine, with 4 speed automatic
transmission.

Before I found the car, I first towed my trailer with a friend's car,
fully loaded with glider, tail dolly, tow-out gear, wash bucket, wing
stand, folding chair, etc, to a truck stop and weighed the trailer on
the scales. *Result: *2,040 lbs! *A LOT heavier than I had
anticipated. *Tongue weight is 180 lbs. *That, too is a lot more than
anticipated. *But once I knew the weight of the trailer, I knew what I
had to look for in a tow vehicle. *Oh, by the way, the "tow vehicle"
was going to be my every day driver, too. *So, it had to be affordable
to purchase and to drive. *And the Subaru fit the bill.

The Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs (in America. *Seems to be
different in different countries. *Lawyers at work?) if the trailer
has brakes. *Only 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes. *My
trailer, a Swan, has brakes. *Max tongue weight is 200 lbs.

While my trailer weighs less than the maximum allowable tow weight, I
did have an automatic transmission oil cooler installed. *Necessary?
I don't know. *But I had it installed anyway. *Subaru doesn't offer an
auxillary transmission cooler (the stock setup routes transmission oil
to a section of the radiator for cooling), so I had an independant
transmission shop install it for me.

Here on the east coast of USA, the Subaru tows the trailer just fine.
I have towed it up the steep climbs on I-77 through North Carolina,
Virginia and West Virginia without problems. *On those climbs, I
pulled the transmission down to third gear and continued on at about
50 mph. *I've pulled it up to New Castle, VA without any problems.
Now, one caveat is that on all these trips, the outside temperature
was cool. *I've never had the opportunity to tow it up through the
mountains on a hot day. *There is a transmission temperature "idiot
light" that is supposed to come on when the transmission gets hot.
I've never seen it come on. *Not really sure if that means the tranny
is toast once it comes on, or just saying to pull over and let it cool
down before preceeding on...

Gas mileage towing varies from 20 - 22 mpg. *Without the trailer, on
the highway, it gets about 26 mpg. *As an everyday driver, it does
just fine. *No, it's not as refined as my previous Honda Accord. *It's
noiser in the cabin, less room, somewhat "cheaper" looking than either
the Accord or my wife's Hyundai Sonata. *But here's the main point:
It is rated to tow my trailer. *Nothing else matters.

Since it has the non-turbo engine, it burns regular ocatane gasoline.
Go with the turbo option, and you have to use premium gasoline. *Your
fun factor goes up, but so does the gas bill.

The new Outbacks can be bought, in America, with a new 3.5 liter six
cylinder engine and it uses regular octane gasoline. *I think in the
previous six, you had to use premium. *If you get the four cylinder, I
think you get a continuously variable transmission, and I don't know
how that would work out for towing.

In Europe, the Forester is available with a four cylinder turbo-
diesel. *Too bad we don't have that available in America. *Not yet,
anyway.

So, I can recommend a Subaru for towing your trailer.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

So how much bearing do I need to put on the tow rating of a vehicle? I
would like a new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L 4 cyl and a manual
transmission. The tow rating for that vehicle is only 1,540 lbs.

I have a question, are glider trailers rated to tow above 60MPH. In
Europe where most of the trailers are made (I think) the max speed for
a trailer is 60mph /100kph. Just wondering as I see all kinds of
clames that people are towing faster than this. Would this be an
insurance problem if you had an accident and were going faster than
the trailer is rated? Just wondering.

Bob (waiting for the wave)

On Oct 30, 8:20*am, delboy wrote:
As a Brit, I just love these US discussions about the impossibilty of
towing glider trailers with anything that doesn't weigh at least 3
tons, with a huge gas guzzling V8 engine. Due to our Government's
dependence on fuel duties, which are extortionate, most of us own
quite modest sized cars, but we still tow glider trailers around. A
1.6 litre vehicle will tow a single seater glider trailer perfectly
well and 2.0 litres for a two seater trailer. It is probably best to
keep the speed below 60 mph though (legal speed limit for trailers
anyway in the UK) . Automatic gearboxes may need an oil cooler fitted.

Derek Copeland

On Oct 30, 12:33*pm, rlovinggood wrote:



Ryan,

I tow my glider with a 2005 Subaru Forester with the 2.5 liter four
cylinder, non-turbocharged gasoline engine, with 4 speed automatic
transmission.

Before I found the car, I first towed my trailer with a friend's car,
fully loaded with glider, tail dolly, tow-out gear, wash bucket, wing
stand, folding chair, etc, to a truck stop and weighed the trailer on
the scales. *Result: *2,040 lbs! *A LOT heavier than I had
anticipated. *Tongue weight is 180 lbs. *That, too is a lot more than
anticipated. *But once I knew the weight of the trailer, I knew what I
had to look for in a tow vehicle. *Oh, by the way, the "tow vehicle"
was going to be my every day driver, too. *So, it had to be affordable
to purchase and to drive. *And the Subaru fit the bill.

The Forester is rated to tow 2,400 lbs (in America. *Seems to be
different in different countries. *Lawyers at work?) if the trailer
has brakes. *Only 1,000 lbs if the trailer doesn't have brakes. *My
trailer, a Swan, has brakes. *Max tongue weight is 200 lbs.

While my trailer weighs less than the maximum allowable tow weight, I
did have an automatic transmission oil cooler installed. *Necessary?
I don't know. *But I had it installed anyway. *Subaru doesn't offer an
auxillary transmission cooler (the stock setup routes transmission oil
to a section of the radiator for cooling), so I had an independant
transmission shop install it for me.

Here on the east coast of USA, the Subaru tows the trailer just fine.
I have towed it up the steep climbs on I-77 through North Carolina,
Virginia and West Virginia without problems. *On those climbs, I
pulled the transmission down to third gear and continued on at about
50 mph. *I've pulled it up to New Castle, VA without any problems.
Now, one caveat is that on all these trips, the outside temperature
was cool. *I've never had the opportunity to tow it up through the
mountains on a hot day. *There is a transmission temperature "idiot
light" that is supposed to come on when the transmission gets hot.
I've never seen it come on. *Not really sure if that means the tranny
is toast once it comes on, or just saying to pull over and let it cool
down before preceeding on...

Gas mileage towing varies from 20 - 22 mpg. *Without the trailer, on
the highway, it gets about 26 mpg. *As an everyday driver, it does
just fine. *No, it's not as refined as my previous Honda Accord. *It's
noiser in the cabin, less room, somewhat "cheaper" looking than either
the Accord or my wife's Hyundai Sonata. *But here's the main point:
It is rated to tow my trailer. *Nothing else matters.

Since it has the non-turbo engine, it burns regular ocatane gasoline.
Go with the turbo option, and you have to use premium gasoline. *Your
fun factor goes up, but so does the gas bill.

The new Outbacks can be bought, in America, with a new 3.5 liter six
cylinder engine and it uses regular octane gasoline. *I think in the
previous six, you had to use premium. *If you get the four cylinder, I
think you get a continuously variable transmission, and I don't know
how that would work out for towing.

In Europe, the Forester is available with a four cylinder turbo-
diesel. *Too bad we don't have that available in America. *Not yet,
anyway.

So, I can recommend a Subaru for towing your trailer.

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

As an additional datapoint, I towed my Ka-6 from WI to Elmira NY and
back for IVSM behind my 1.8l Mazda Protege 5. The Mazda does have a
manual transmission, and I stayed in 4th at around 57mph the entire
way. The fuel mileage was pretty atrocious, but I blame the fact that
I am towing a slab sided bread box with no aerodynamic refinement
whatsoever.

Peter

On Oct 30, 10:18*am, Nick S wrote:
So how much bearing do I need to put on the tow rating of a vehicle? I
would like a new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L 4 cyl and a manual
transmission. The tow rating for that vehicle is only 1,540 lbs.

Nick, in my case, I had to put a good bit of bearing on the tow rating
of the vehicle. My old homebuilt trailer was very light. Now, that,
and the fact that it towed easily, were the ONLY things good about
it. My old 1988 Honda Accord 2.0 liter 5-speed manual towed it quite
easily. When I got an Accord V-6 with automatic transmission, it
towed it even better.

Then, I got a new trailer. Boy is it nice, but boy is it heavy, as
compared to the old home-built trailer. Unknown to me at the time, it
was too heavy for the Accord. The tow rating for the Accord was 1,000
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. Turns out that 180 lb tongue
weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of
the bottom of the Accord's trunk. There was really not much steel in
the Honda to bolt a hitch to, and the strain imposed by the trailer
was ripping the bottom of the trunk away from the car. Thus the need
to find a different tow vehicle. And thus, my reason for first
weighing the loaded trailer, then secondly looking for a tow vehicle.
Now after a few thousand miles of towing the trailer with the Subaru,
there haven't been any problems.

Of course, Your Mileage May Vary...

Ray Lovinggood
Carrboro, North Carolina, USA

rlovinggood wrote:
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. Turns out that 180 lb tongue
weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of

This is ridiculous. There's no reason to have a tongue weight of more
than about 30 to 40 pounds. That you bought a new car rather than
rebalancing the trailer is even more ridiculous.

If Europeans want a faster plane, they refine the aerodynamics. If
Americans want a faster plane, they mount a bigger engine.

On Oct 30, 2:18*pm, Nick S wrote:
So how much bearing do I need to put on the tow rating of a vehicle? I
would like a new Ford Ranger with the 2.3L 4 cyl and a manual
transmission. The tow rating for that vehicle is only 1,540 lbs.

I think that you will find that figure is for an UNBRAKED trailer (750
kg to us Europeans). Nearly all glider trailers are fitted with
overrun brakes. In the UK there is a recommendation (although not a
law) that the weight of the trailer should not exceed 85% of the kerb
weight of the towing vehicle. Most vehicles are capable of towing much
more than this, but you need to check the manufacturer's handbook for
exact details.

Derek Copeland

On Oct 30, 8:06*am, John Smith wrote:
rlovinggood wrote:
lbs with a 100 lb max tongue weight. *Turns out that 180 lb tongue
weight of the new trailer came very close to ripping the hitch off of

This is ridiculous. There's no reason to have a tongue weight of more
than about 30 to 40 pounds. That you bought a new car rather than
rebalancing the trailer is even more ridiculous.

If Europeans want a faster plane, they refine the aerodynamics. If
Americans want a faster plane, they mount a bigger engine.

Yes there is. Recommended tongue weight is 10% of trailer weight. My
Komet trailer is almost exactly that. Our club Komet with the LS-4 in
it has, as you stated, about 30-50 pounds tongue weight. My trailer
is stable to well over 75 mph. The LS-4 trailer can get very ugly
around/above 65. Of course, it's not a problem if you're willing to
keep the speed down.