Let a friend fly the plane. Legal?

A private or commercial pilot may only log PIC time when
they are the sole manipulator of the controls [that includes
the autopilot controls], it is possible that neither pilot
can log any of the flight time. Only a CFI or an ATP [in a
121 or 135 operation] may log PIC time when they are not
actual operating the controls.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"Mike Murdock" wrote in message
...
| But if a pilot wants, they may allow any person to handle
| the controls, but then neither may log that time.
|
| As I understand it, the person ACTING as Pilot In Command
may always log the
| time (as total time and PIC time), whether that person is
sole manipulator
| of the flight controls or not. More than one person can
certainly log PIC
| time, but I can't think of a circumstance when nobody can
log PIC time.
|
| -Mike
|
|

The person acting as PIC may not be able to log that time
unless they qualify under some regulation. Someone is
always PIC, but PIC time does not always have to be logged
on any particular flight.



--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm



"three-eight-hotel" wrote in
message
oups.com...
| As I understand it, the person ACTING as Pilot In
Command may always log the
| time (as total time and PIC time), whether that person
is sole manipulator
| of the flight controls or not.
|
| That is my understanding as well. The PIC is someone how
accepts
| responsibility for the safety of the flight, whether
he/she is
| manipulating the controls or not.
|
| Best Regards,
| Todd
|

You can only log PIC when another pilot [licensed or not] is
flying if you are a CFI. An ATP may log PIC when that
authority was assigned by the dispatcher for a 135 or 121
flight. In a 121 long haul flight, the PIC can log that
time even while asleep in the bunk. Further, an ATP may
give and log instruction in 121 and 135 operations that
require an ATP for the pilot.


--
James H. Macklin
ATP,CFI,A&P

--
The people think the Constitution protects their rights;
But government sees it as an obstacle to be overcome.
some support
http://www.usdoj.gov/olc/secondamendment2.htm





"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
| In a previous article, "Doug"
said:
| One of my students asked me if it is legal to let a
friend fly his
| plane. Student is legal PIC, not an instructor and the
plane has dual
|
| When you're a legally certificated and medicalled pilot,
and you let your
| friends or family members take the controls, they are just
a meat-based
| autopilot. You're still PIC, and it's no different than
if you'd turned
| on George.
|
| --
| Paul Tomblin
http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
| "Usenet is like a herd of performing elephants with
diarrhea -- massive,
| difficult to redirect, awe-inspiring, entertaining, and a
source of mind-
| boggling amounts of excrement when you least expect
t." - spaf (1992)

You can only log PIC when another pilot [licensed or not] is
flying if you are a CFI.

(apologies if this is a dupe)
What about a safety pilot?

You can only log PIC when another pilot [licensed or not] is
flying if you are a CFI

What about a safety pilot?

In a previous article, "Jim Macklin" said:
You can only log PIC when another pilot [licensed or not] is
flying if you are a CFI. An ATP may log PIC when that

Do you log time when the autopilot is engaged?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
"I'm cruising down the Information Superhighway in high gear, surfing the
waves of the Digital Ocean, exploring the uncharted regions of Cyberspace.
Actually I'm sitting on my butt staring at a computer screen."

As I understand it, the person ACTING as Pilot In Command may always log the
time (as total time and PIC time), whether that person is sole manipulator
of the flight controls or not.

I have not seen where this is so. I have seen that one may log as PIC
time ONLY that time in which... one is acting as PIC in a situation
where MORE THAN ONE PILOT IS NEEDED. I've seen posted here a letter
from the FAA which appears to attempt to indicate that any time where
one is acting as PIC is loggable as PIC, but the logic in the letter
does not in fact succeed to indicate that.

Nonetheless, I count organic autopilots as flight controls, and log the
time.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Jim Macklin wrote:
You can only log PIC when another pilot [licensed or not] is
flying if you are a CFI. An ATP may log PIC when that
authority was assigned by the dispatcher for a 135 or 121
flight. In a 121 long haul flight, the PIC can log that
time even while asleep in the bunk. Further, an ATP may
give and log instruction in 121 and 135 operations that
require an ATP for the pilot.

Given the situation:
IFR student under the hood on a VFR day,
any other rated pilot as safety pilot,
I thought the safety pilot could log PIC...?

Another OWT?

Given the situation:
IFR student under the hood on a VFR day,
any other rated pilot as safety pilot,
I thought the safety pilot could log PIC...?

Another OWT?

Half so.

This situation is one in which two the safety pilot is a required
crewmember. If the safety pilot is =also= acting as pilot in command,
then he or she may log PIC time (during the VFR conditions while the PF
is under the hood) under 61.51(e)(1)(iii). If the safety pilot is not
acting as pilot in command, then he or she may log SIC time.

Jose
--
You can choose whom to befriend, but you cannot choose whom to love.
for Email, make the obvious change in the address.

Mike Murdock wrote:
: But if a pilot wants, they may allow any person to handle
: the controls, but then neither may log that time.

: As I understand it, the person ACTING as Pilot In Command may always log the
: time (as total time and PIC time), whether that person is sole manipulator
: of the flight controls or not. More than one person can certainly log PIC
: time, but I can't think of a circumstance when nobody can log PIC time.

That is most certainly *NOT* my interpretation up until a few days ago. There
are some inconsistencies between the regulations (FAR 61.51) and the letter of the
FAA from 1977:
http://www.propilot.com/doc/bbs/msgs//11672.html

I used to think that since there is a clear distinction between acting as PIC
and logging PIC time in the FARs, that there was no way the acting PIC can log PIC
time if a non-pilot was manipulating the controls. One could make the argument that
flipping on an autopilot is "manipulating the controls," but if the FARs say that if
someone else is manipulating the controls, the acting PIC cannot log PIC time.
Furthermore, the non-pilot manipulating the controls cannot log the time since they do
not have a category/class rating. If that person *does* have a category/class rating
they can log the time even though they cannot act as PIC (e.g. no medical, no BFR,
no complex endorsement, etc)

Where it gets funky is what the poster in
http://www.propilot.com/doc/bbs/msgs//11672.html suggests. The "broad-painted brush"
of the official FAA letter says:
"Also, a pilot, rated in category and class (e.g. airplane single-engine) could, as
the pilot who "Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of
the flight" log PIC time if another pilot, not appropriately rated, was actually
manipulating the controls of the aircraft." As the poster surmised, one could take
that to the conclusion that a non-complex-endorsed (but category/class-rated) pilot
could log PIC time for manipulating the controls of a complex aircraft AND the
complex-endorsed pilot acting as PIC.

Crap... I *thought* I understood this whole thing. If it weren't for the
letter, letting grandma or Fido fly means (according to the literal FARs) that
*nobody* can log PIC.

-Cory

--

************************************************** ***********************
* Cory Papenfuss *
* Electrical Engineering candidate Ph.D. graduate student *
* Virginia Polytechnic Institute and State University *
************************************************** ***********************