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  #21  
Old January 18th 20, 01:17 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
[email protected]
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Default WWGC.

Statement:

“ On the final day of competition, a complaint was lodged that alleged the Australian Team had gained unauthorized access to undelayed data from the official competition tracking system. This was the system that all competitors were compelled to use. Following an investigation, a penalty of 250pts was applied to all Australian Team competitors.

Four protests were subsequently lodged in both support (further penalties including disqualification) and defence (removal of the penalty). The jury deliberated for 6 hours and called on the assistance of a number of IT experts that included the system designer. The ultimate outcome being a 225pt overall penalty to all Australian competitors. The penalty was levied for a team action and as such, does not infer infringement by individual Australian pilots.”
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  #22  
Old January 18th 20, 01:36 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default WWGC.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 7:17:07 PM UTC-5, wrote:
Statement:

“ On the final day of competition, a complaint was lodged that alleged the Australian Team had gained unauthorized access to undelayed data from the official competition tracking system. This was the system that all competitors were compelled to use. Following an investigation, a penalty of 250pts was applied to all Australian Team competitors.

Four protests were subsequently lodged in both support (further penalties including disqualification) and defence (removal of the penalty). The jury deliberated for 6 hours and called on the assistance of a number of IT experts that included the system designer. The ultimate outcome being a 225pt overall penalty to all Australian competitors. The penalty was levied for a team action and as such, does not infer infringement by individual Australian pilots.”


Are the protests available for spectators like us to read?

T8
  #23  
Old January 18th 20, 01:40 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
WaltWX[_2_]
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Default WWGC.

This infringement was on the "official competition tracking system". OGN like receiving stations already provide real-time data from FLARM and many teams already use this source (UN-delayed tracking). What I don't know is whether the rules prohibit that access. Some of the well funded teams place their own OGN trackers around a task area to gain access to real-time (FLARM) tracking.

A similar issue about access to real-time information in the cockpit comes up with respect to weather data. U.S. Rules now allow access to that... mainly because with smartphones and ubiquitous Internet... it's near impossible to enforce a rule prohibiting it.

Walt WX


  #24  
Old January 18th 20, 02:56 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tom BravoMike
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Default WWGC.

On Thursday, January 16, 2020 at 9:21:51 PM UTC-6, Charlie Quebec wrote:
Interesting news, the entire Australian team has been penalised for unsporting behaviour on the last day.. A protest is currently being heard.
The bun fight at the Keepit corral.


So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying', like in car racing the crews in the pitstops compete how fast they can change the tires and influence the results. Let the competition be OPEN and viewable in real time to the organizers, scorers, safety teams and viewers on-line. Don't make it so complicated and vulnerable to cheating, don't make it unsafe by limiting the anti-collision solutions and devices. Don't want the others to overhear your radio? Speak Navajo.... The air masses change all the time, nobody will ever fly in exactly same conditions, strategic and tactic decisions will still need to be made; the results will still depend on pilots' skills and on glider make and model and on how polished the wings are - and on good luck. Tightening the screws of the regulations in reaction to the progress in technology will result in endless suspicions, penalties and protests and suits, and will take away all the fun of it, whatever fun is left there in the current situation.
  #25  
Old January 18th 20, 08:57 AM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default WWGC.

And from there on impose a way to disrupt team flying. Solution: Different start time Windows, with pilots randomly changing assigned windows each day. Too many rules...
  #26  
Old January 18th 20, 01:40 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Alastair Lyas[_2_]
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Default WWGC.


If only we could get this much interest for ALL regionals. Maybe
we could slow the decline in gliding !


At 07:57 18 January 2020, wrote:
And from there on impose a way to disrupt team flying. Solution:

Different
start time Windows, with pilots randomly changing assigned

windows each
day. Too many rules...


  #27  
Old January 18th 20, 02:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Tango Eight
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Default WWGC.

On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'


That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8
  #28  
Old January 18th 20, 03:34 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Paul T[_4_]
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Default WWGC.

At 13:34 18 January 2020, Tango Eight wrote:
Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.


A lifetime ban from all gliding competition for those found 'operating
outside the rules' might assist in this - i.e. zero tolerance.

  #29  
Old January 18th 20, 03:36 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
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Default WWGC.

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 8:34:08 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'


That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8


The IGC is responding to pilots and teams that are demanding actions to reduce the effect of ground controlled glider competition. Without action, some countries have indicated that their future participation is questionable.
Delayed tracking has been needed for some time.
My view is that IGC should respond in a very harsh way to the offending team management to send a message that this kind if cheating will not be tolerated.
It is sad that the performances of the Aussie ladies will be tarnished because we can't know if their performances were fair.
FWIW
UH
  #30  
Old January 18th 20, 04:20 PM posted to rec.aviation.soaring
Dan Daly[_2_]
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Default WWGC.

On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 9:36:53 AM UTC-5, wrote:
On Saturday, January 18, 2020 at 8:34:08 AM UTC-5, Tango Eight wrote:
On Friday, January 17, 2020 at 8:56:23 PM UTC-5, Tom BravoMike wrote:

So the solution is... to stop fighting it. Make the teams on the ground be part of the 'team flying'


That's what's been going on for the last decade. Check around. There's much history here. The technology arms race led to a ground controlled sport that many find unsatisfying. IGC now trying to find the way back to a more individual sport. Rules enforcement, as we observe, is problematic.

T8


The IGC is responding to pilots and teams that are demanding actions to reduce the effect of ground controlled glider competition. Without action, some countries have indicated that their future participation is questionable.
Delayed tracking has been needed for some time.
My view is that IGC should respond in a very harsh way to the offending team management to send a message that this kind if cheating will not be tolerated.
It is sad that the performances of the Aussie ladies will be tarnished because we can't know if their performances were fair.
FWIW
UH


@UH - Agree. I was particularly disappointed that with the significant 'home-field' advantage that Australia already had, in terms of local knowledge, access to resources beyond that of other teams (a phone call away, not a continent), no massive body time-zone shift at the start, no move from Northern winter to scorching summer temps/humidity, no massive cost shipping worries, etc., someone felt the need to do this. Looking at it from the other side, perhaps being on the other end of that equation so much, given that the vast majority of WGCs are in Europe, some thought it might be justifiable. This doesn't seem like the Aussies I know.
 




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