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Marines unable to take Fallujah



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 24th 04, 05:03 PM
Bob Coe
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Default Marines unable to take Fallujah

The Commandant of the Marines said today, that his troops "will
not be able to enter Fallujah, Iraq for years." He said that until that
time, they will have to "rely on the Air Force ability to collect airborne
intelligence," and try and "plink them into submission."

"They have enough weapons and men to hold us off longer than
the Knights Templar in the same situation. Unless we are given
orders to destroy the city, it will continue to be a thorn in the sides
of any democratic Iraqi regime."

It's a sad day for the Marine Corps.


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  #3  
Old September 24th 04, 06:05 PM
ibm
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Bob Coe wrote:

The Commandant of the Marines said today, that his troops "will
not be able to enter Fallujah, Iraq for years." He said that until that
time, they will have to "rely on the Air Force ability to collect airborne
intelligence," and try and "plink them into submission."

"They have enough weapons and men to hold us off longer than
the Knights Templar in the same situation. Unless we are given
orders to destroy the city, it will continue to be a thorn in the sides
of any democratic Iraqi regime."

It's a sad day for the Marine Corps.


Well yeah, Marines denied the opportunity to "secure"
a target aren't happy campers.
The Marines could take Fallujah in very short order if the
gloves came off.
Taking the city and minimizing civilian casualties is another
thig entirely though.
Fallujah can be contained and the moderately successful "pick
them off remotely" strategy can continue. There is already
evidence that some inhabitants of Fallujah have had it up to
here with the insurgents and are ready to drop a dime on them.
The insurgents want to lure US Forces into the constricted
areas of a crowded city. They have no compunction at all about
causing civilian casualties remember. Why should we let them
dictate the terms of engagement.

IBM


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  #4  
Old September 24th 04, 06:20 PM
Bob Coe
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"ibm" wrote

There is already
evidence that some inhabitants of Fallujah have had it up to
here with the insurgents and are ready to drop a dime on them.


According to my son, who just came back after an 18 month tour,
he says most of the women, children, and old people have left
Fallujah. It's basically a "Deadwood" now, and he couldn't figure
out why we still let them have electricity and water??

But he never got within 50 miles of the place, spending most of his
time in Najaf, and Baghdad (Firebase Melody and Camp Marlboro).


  #5  
Old September 24th 04, 06:30 PM
stop spam
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Default

Bob Coe wrote:
The Commandant of the Marines said today, that his troops "will
not be able to enter Fallujah, Iraq for years." He said that until that
time, they will have to "rely on the Air Force ability to collect airborne
intelligence," and try and "plink them into submission."

"They have enough weapons and men to hold us off longer than
the Knights Templar in the same situation. Unless we are given
orders to destroy the city, it will continue to be a thorn in the sides
of any democratic Iraqi regime."

It's a sad day for the Marine Corps.


Why is this a sad day for the Corps?

The Corps could take the city in a matter of days, IF they were given
unlimited ROE. It's just not a reasonable move to allow them
unrestricted ROE.

Unfortunately, especially given the terrorists expertise is setting up
ambushes and situations designed to cause the highest rate of civilian
causalities (and none of the media ever bother trying to determine whose
bullets killed the civilians), this would cause even more damage to the
US side than if the US stays outside of Fallujah and waits them out.

At some point the civilians will get tired of the terrorists ruling
their town and either throw them out themselves or start providing
enough intelligence to allow the US to do so.

  #6  
Old September 24th 04, 08:05 PM
Kevin Brooks
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Default


"Bob Coe" wrote in message
news:[email protected]
The Commandant of the Marines said today, that his troops "will
not be able to enter Fallujah, Iraq for years." He said that until that
time, they will have to "rely on the Air Force ability to collect airborne
intelligence," and try and "plink them into submission."


Where did this come from? A Google News search reveals no such comments from
the Commandant. The closest I could find were a couple of weeks old, and
your translation is NOT what he really said:

"There doesn't seem to be a light at the end of the tunnel," Marine Corps
spokesman Maj. Jason Johnson said Tuesday. "But it's not that kind of
conflict where you have big tactical victories that make everybody feel good
about things." Johnson referred to a recent message by Marine Corps
Commandant Gen. Michael Hagee, who told a gathering of reporters at the
National Press Club that he aimed for a long-term win ---- or Big W,' as he
put it ---- in Iraq. "We don't want a 'Little W,'" Hagee said, according to
the Defense Department's news service. "There is no one in Iraq who does not
understand that if we wanted to come in and level Fallujah, level Ramadi,
level An-Najaf, we could do that, but that's not mission accomplishment.
That's the 'Little W.' We need the 'Big W' here."

http://www.nctimes.com/articles/2004...5_379_7_04.txt

What is the source?

Brooks


"They have enough weapons and men to hold us off longer than
the Knights Templar in the same situation. Unless we are given
orders to destroy the city, it will continue to be a thorn in the sides
of any democratic Iraqi regime."

It's a sad day for the Marine Corps.




  #7  
Old September 24th 04, 10:14 PM
Krztalizer
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Default


But he never got within 50 miles of the place, spending most of his
time in Najaf, and Baghdad (Firebase Melody and Camp Marlboro).


There was a video on the web a while back of FB Melody taking a rocket attack.
Glad your son is home safe, Bob!

The names of these temporary military encampments is always interesting. In
the closing days of WWII, tens of thousands of Allied bomber crewmen were
released from German captivity - they were sheparded into large tent cities
where they could be sorted out. The biggest was Camp Lucky Strike. I guess
the cigarette lobby was pretty powerful even back then...

v/r
Gordon
====(A+C====
USN SAR

Its always better to lose -an- engine, not -the- engine.

  #9  
Old September 25th 04, 01:50 AM
Dav1936531
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Default

From: "Bob Coe"
[email protected]

The Commandant of the Marines said today, that his troops "will
not be able to enter Fallujah, Iraq for years."
snip
It's a sad day for the Marine Corps.


The real ****er is that, during the Marines initial assault on Fallujah after
the contractor killings and burnings there, the Marines had the entirety of the
Fallujah insurgents pinned in a box in the north east sector (IIRC) of the
city. A couple of B-52 loads could have ended any problems there.

Sure, it would have appeared brutal. And the French would have screamed bloody
murder. But these insurgents RESPECT brutality only. They feared the Marine
snipers more then any other force.

Now we have some 140 or more hostages being held. And beheading videos.

The insurgents in Iraq are "Monkey see. Monkey do." Insurgents watched a
negotiated ending to the Marines assault on Fallujah, came to believe they can
just push the US forces around, and consequently, insurgents have popped up in
a wide variety of other places....thinking they can push the US forces around.

If the US had dealt in a merciless and brutal fashion with the Fallujah
insurgency, the remainder of anyone leaning towards insurgency wouldn't be
quite so ready to leap out into the street to create problems.

Missed opportunity the first time around in Fallujah. Should have pulled up the
B-52's and let the entirety of Iraq know that we are serious. Big mistake not
to have.
Dave
  #10  
Old September 25th 04, 02:23 AM
Bob Coe
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"Dav1936531" wrote

If the US had dealt in a merciless and brutal fashion with the Fallujah
insurgency, the remainder of anyone leaning towards insurgency wouldn't be
quite so ready to leap out into the street to create problems.


Which is pretty much how Saddam controlled things. Maybe he wasn't
so bad after all? Maybe the people he killed deserved to die?

The U.S. has probably killed more Iraqis than Saddam ever did. The
streets of Najaf were running with Shiite blood. Something never seen
after the Kuwait war.


 




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