Light Twins. How soft???

I keep hearing "the market for Light Twins is soft."

Anyone have any tales to tell?

Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Did the economy's shake-up knock quite a few people out of the Twin
tree - people who were just barely holding on, "before" the shake-up?

Basically, are there a glut of Light Twins on the market, now, because
people overbought (or overspent) during the previous (guessing) 5 or 6
years? First thing to go when things get tight is the Twin?

Are quite a few people trading (down) all at once?

Or is something else happening? Are there *other* market dynamics at
work here?

Again, anyone have any tales to tell?


(Wonder what the odds are of this thread hitting 300 posts? g)

--
Montblack

In a previous article, "Montblack" said:
Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
Mentally update my CV, paying special attention to the bits
about how to say "Was Fired For Being A Prat" in a positive light.
-- Eric the Read's bad day

(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message ...
In a previous article, "Montblack" said:
Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?

IF the FAA's proposed AD on Cessna 300/400 series wings comes out as
it was proposed the last time I looked, it will definately drive those
aircraft sales into the pits. The proposed fix isn't too expensive
parts wise, but labor will be a killer. Their estimate for labor costs
is over $17,000, and I think that was per wing....

Craig C.

(Craig) wrote in message . com...
(Paul Tomblin) wrote in message ...
In a previous article, "Montblack" said:
Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?

IF the FAA's proposed AD on Cessna 300/400 series wings comes out as
it was proposed the last time I looked, it will definately drive those
aircraft sales into the pits. The proposed fix isn't too expensive
parts wise, but labor will be a killer. Their estimate for labor costs
is over $17,000, and I think that was per wing....

Is it the entire 3/400 series? Or just certain ones? Is their an
NPRM or similar we can reference?

-Nathan

Is it the entire 3/400 series? Or just certain ones? Is their an
NPRM or similar we can reference?

This site has a little info:
http://www.cessnatwinssparcorp.org/

--
Ben
C-172 - N13258 @ 87Y

"Montblack" wrote
I keep hearing "the market for Light Twins is soft."

Soft really isn't the right word. Nonexistent is more like it.

Are used Light Twins not selling these days, or are they selling for
what some would consider "bargain" prices, or both?

The ones that are selling are going for bargain prices. Mostly
they're simply not selling, since most owners are simply not willing
to take a beating. Those who have high quality light twins and can
afford to keep them are mostly just keeping them.

Did the economy's shake-up knock quite a few people out of the Twin
tree - people who were just barely holding on, "before" the shake-up?

Yes, some of that is going on. Those are the twins that are selling
for bargain prices. They're no bargain. The people who were just
barely holding on were the same ones skimping on maintenance. With
money tight and a plan to sell, you can be certain that anything that
could possibly be deferred was deferred, regarless of long-term
consequences. The economy has been in the crapper for over two years
now. The owners who are willing to sell at a bargain price are the
same ones who have been getting pencilwhip annuals for the last two
years or more.

You might also manage to get a bargain if someone is trading up - but
right now, very few light twin owners are trading up. In fact, most
are looking to trade down. It doesn't help that a huge fraction of
light twin owners are airline captains, and they're more worried about
their financial future than most.

Then there are the trainers. With flight training (especially foreign
student training) in the crapper since 9/11, flight schools aren't
buying. Not really a factor when you're looking at the 250+ hp/side
class of twin, but a huge deal in the under-200 hp/side market.

Michael

Well, depends... And, Bob Hoover I ain't... I just sent the payment for
another year's renewal on my Apache... One million liability plus the value
of the hull... $2990.00 ymmv
Denny
"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "Montblack"
said:
Or has it become damn near impossible to find an insurance company that
will insure you in a light twin unless you have slightly more flying
experience than Bob Hoover?
Mentally update my CV, paying special attention to the bits
about how to say "Was Fired For Being A Prat" in a positive light.
-- Eric the Read's bad day

In a previous article, "Dennis O'Connor" said:
Well, depends... And, Bob Hoover I ain't... I just sent the payment for
another year's renewal on my Apache... One million liability plus the value
of the hull... $2990.00 ymmv

Is this a plane you've owned for a while, or one that you've bought
recently? I've heard it's absolutely impossible to get insurance for
buying a twin in a large partnership or flying club, but if they already
had a twin it's possible to renew it (just barely). I've also heard it's
getting much much harder for single owners to get insurance for a twin
unless they owned it a few years ago.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You'll get access to my computer room right after you pry the Halon test
key out of my cold, lifeless hands.
-- Simon Travaglia

"Dennis O'Connor" writes:

Well, depends... And, Bob Hoover I ain't... I just sent the payment for
another year's renewal on my Apache... One million liability plus the value
of the hull... $2990.00 ymmv

Maybe you should trade up to an Aztec and save some money. (Ha ha!)
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=e....org&frame=off

I just realized that I have the policy details now. I'll post them
in that thread.

--kyler

I bought Fat Albert in '99... I have been a plane owner for 40 years, but
this is the first twin I've owned..
denny

"Paul Tomblin" wrote in message
...
In a previous article, "Dennis O'Connor" said:
Well, depends... And, Bob Hoover I ain't... I just sent the payment for
another year's renewal on my Apache... One million liability plus the
value
of the hull... $2990.00 ymmv

Is this a plane you've owned for a while, or one that you've bought
recently? I've heard it's absolutely impossible to get insurance for
buying a twin in a large partnership or flying club, but if they already
had a twin it's possible to renew it (just barely). I've also heard it's
getting much much harder for single owners to get insurance for a twin
unless they owned it a few years ago.


--
Paul Tomblin http://xcski.com/blogs/pt/
You'll get access to my computer room right after you pry the Halon test
key out of my cold, lifeless hands.
-- Simon Travaglia